Did Farming Send Humans Down The Wrong Path

[Cheese]

My daughter has a debate coming up on Farming vs Hunter-gatherers and weather humans were better off before they started Farming.

Its sounds silly that we be better off if Humans didnt learn how to farm But some of the things the paper states are interesting. Like before farming people only work about 12-15 hr a week and after farming human now work 40+ hrs a week cause farming.

Farmming allowed for Food Storage which caused a few ripples in the way people have changed. Before people stored food, they moved along with the food source. So populations were kept small. Children were born around every 4 yrs cause the older kids were able to keep up better. Once people started storing food, they started to stay in one place longer and it gave birth to cities and such and which bought thing like Trash and Diseases. Diease were almost nonexistent in the times of hunters cause people werent living with domestic animals and such.

So before farming came,population was kept lower, few diseases around and people had more time to enjoy life.

 

[HereticBD]

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Civilization will be the downfall of civilization!

 

[rj144]

What are "weather humans"? LIke rain and snow people?

 

[BisexualMMA]

Well, the nomadic hunting life doesn't work out well for the old or injured. Even modern Lapps just left the old people to starve when they're too slow or weak to cross a river and follow a herd. Not much choice if they need to cling to a moving herd of reindeer for sustenance.

 

[Amerikuracana]

What are "weather humans"? LIke rain and snow people?

Bmti

Oh, and uh, different cultures adapted to different conditions. Places with winters needed farming and food storage more.. There wasn't things growing wild to eat all year round.

Oh, and the countries that farm? They currently send food aid to countries with better soil, that are NOT frozen 4-5 months out of the year. Farming helping people that evolved as hunter-gatherers is bad, because it causes uncontrolled population growth. They evolved and adapted to breeding to sustain numbers lost due to diseases that thrive more in year round warmth.

There will be ZERO honesty, truth, or basic science at this debate, if PCness is present.

 

[Halge]

Its sounds silly that we be better off if Humans didnt learn how to farm But some of the things the paper states are interesting. Like before farming people only work about 12-15 hr a week and after farming human now work 40+ hrs a week cause farming.

At the same time, it is commonly claimed that farming was a prerequisite for freeing up enough time to do other stuff than hunt for food.

I've heard the claim that hunter-gatherers had plenty of free time before, but I'd like to see a credible source. I've seen Survivor; hunter-gatherer societies do not look like they're conducive to writing Beethovens 5th.

Well, the nomadic hunting life doesn't work out well for the old or injured. Even modern Lapps just left the old people to starve when they're too slow or weak to cross a river and follow a herd. Not much choice if they need to cling to a moving herd of reindeer for sustenance.

Lolwut? Leave them in the nearest old folk's home, maybe.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Farming was basically something that had to happen for populations to expand... Humanity wouldn't be better off, there would be few animals to eat and few humans to eat them.

Also, moving around constantly isn't enjoying life, bud. Take it from a man who knows. It sounds good in theory, but in reality it sucks balls.

 

[blaseblah]

Diease were almost nonexistent in the times of hunters cause people werent living with domestic animals and such.

So before farming came,population was kept lower, few diseases around and people had more time to enjoy life.

The disease part strikes me immediately as being bullshit. Gonna need a source for that chief. I know there isn't one because we weren't tracking diseases in the hunter-gatherer era. The majority of our diseases do not come from farm animals so that doesn't really make sense.

Also low population is a bad thing for human growth, not a good thing.

 

[Amerikuracana]

My daughter has a debate coming up on Farming vs Hunter-gatherers and weather humans were better off before they started Farming.

Its sounds silly that we be better off if Humans didnt learn how to farm But some of the things the paper states are interesting. Like before farming people only work about 12-15 hr a week and after farming human now work 40+ hrs a week cause farming.

Farmming allowed for Food Storage which caused a few ripples in the way people have changed. Before people stored food, they moved along with the food source. So populations were kept small. Children were born around every 4 yrs cause the older kids were able to keep up better. Once people started storing food, they started to stay in one place longer and it gave birth to cities and such and which bought thing like Trash and Diseases. Diease were almost nonexistent in the times of hunters cause people werent living with domestic animals and such.

So before farming came,population was kept lower, few diseases around and people had more time to enjoy life.

Farming allowed for all intellectual pursuit. Philosophy, engineering, civilization creation.. It was because of farming. It also was a big step towards moving us to the top of the food chain. Ff

 

[Deleted member 220895]

I hope your daughter learns just because she was assigned to a debate she doesn't have to believe in her arguments.

 

[Cheese]

The disease part strikes me immediately as being bullshit. Gonna need a source for that chief. I know there isn't one because we weren't tracking diseases in the hunter-gatherer era. The majority of our diseases do not come from farm animals so that doesn't really make sense.

Also low population is a bad thing for human growth, not a good thing.

Not sure on sources. this is just a kids paper that she has to do to learn Annotate.

But it say that one people started to settle, that them shared housing with animals and bought in the disease epidemic.


It also claims that farming gave birth to class systems. The have and have nots, rich and poor.

 

[Medical Marijuana Man]

Ask your daughter to help you with your spelling

 

[INTERL0PER]

The disease part strikes me immediately as being bullshit. Gonna need a source for that chief. I know there isn't one because we weren't tracking diseases in the hunter-gatherer era. The majority of our diseases do not come from farm animals so that doesn't really make sense.

Also low population is a bad thing for human growth, not a good thing.

The disease increase doesn't come from animals, it comes from suddenly staying in one place and not knowing what to do with pests and waste.

Going from roving tribes to stationary villages most definitely would've increased bad hygiene and developed a lot more sickness. Plus you get more people living in much closer confines, so when disease does hit, it spreads a lot easier. And, as you're probably only focusing on one crop, you're more likely to have a more limited and less varied diet, which leads to a lower level of general health too.

That's the theory, anyway.

 

[Cheese]

Farming allowed for all intellectual pursuit. Philosophy, engineering, civilization creation.. It was because of farming. It also was a big step towards moving us to the top of the food chain. Ff

I think we could have still moved forward with some technology advances but they would have be alot different cause we would be developing them for different reason.

 

[Amerikuracana]

The disease increase doesn't come from animals, it comes from suddenly staying in one place and not knowing what to do with pests and waste.

Going from roving tribes to stationary villages most definitely would've increased bad hygiene and developed a lot more sickness. Plus you get more people living in much closer confines, so when disease does hit, it spreads a lot easier. And, as you're probably only focusing on one crop, you're more likely to have a more limited and less varied diet, which leads to a lower level of general health too.

That's the theory, anyway.

When the places with farming discovered the places without it, who do you think had the longer life expectancy?

 

[Amerikuracana]

I think we could have still moved forward with some technology advances but they would have be alot different cause we would be developing them for different reason.

Yeah.. Traps.

 

[The Diplomat]

We're talking the Neolithic revolution and agricultural revolution, some 15,000 years ago. It's hard to compare the different ages.

The 8 hour work day wasn't even established until 1916. I don't think down time is comparable, the hunters were fighting for their food and their lives.

 

[INTERL0PER]

When the places with gaming discovered the places without it, who do you think had the longer life expectancy?

I assume you meant farming, not gaming... And I have no idea.

The stuff about disease increase after the start of agriculture was just what I've read, and obviously specifically applies to early agriculture and the first examples of humans living in villages instead of as hunter gatherer's.

I'd assume that eventually farming (and all the civilization benefits it brings with it) leads to longer lifespans. But I'm not sure.

I do think it would've probably taken us quite a while to learn how to live in villages successfully.

I imagine completely changing the species lifestyle from roaming packs of hunters to sedentary farmers would've brought many, many problems with it, and it would've taken a long time to iron out the kinks.

 

[Fluffernutter]

"I've killed all the deer in this part of the forest and my tribe has eaten all the berries."

"I think I'll move to another part of the forest."

"Oh, crap! another tribe of people live over there. They don't like that I am stealing their resources."


OR

"I've noticed that the deer are pleantiful during only certain times of year. Therefore, I have to think of a way to manage food throughout the year. What if instead of eating 100% of the berrues this year, what if we eat only 80%....and then dry and plant the other 20%. That way, we can get food later from today's food sources."

"Plus, while we wait, we can trap some of the deer and let them breed in an enclosed area. Then, we can eat some or even drink their milk."

"While we are at it, we can play checkers as we pass the time."

"Since we aren't going anywhere and have stopped our nomadic lifestyle, it would be cool if the folks in my tribe that are good at math could create a series of borrowing and paying back objects that I can trade for deer-skinned shoes."

"Then, our young men can stay fit at protect us from other nomadic tribes that may want to eat our cultivated berries OR domesticates deer. Plus, when they are not protecting our resourses, they can kick a ball around to each other in between two sets of trees."

"My daughter likes to use the berry juices and deer blood to paint elaborate pictures of the landscapes, people, and the stars on rocks and tree bark. Now that we don't have to move everyday, she can keep practicing. Maybe someday she will be able to trade her paintings for objects to allow her to buy a new shelter."

"Hey, I notcied that this year's crop yield is larger than last year's. We have so many extra berries we can approach a neighboring tribe and ask if they want some. Who knows, maybe they will trade some tall grass that kernels grow out of them. After all, back in my nomadic days, I heard that there was some interesting grasses on the other side of the forest.