Dern, Ortega..and all BJJ players in general.

[Poirierfan]

Ok, its on then. I'll go easy on you.

Nah, go hard or go home. I'm gonna lay into you.

 

[ticho123]

That's why I liked Maia a lot. He realized this and started working with college and olympic wrestlers. He developed a sick single leg, and if it didn't work he would mix it in with a weird ass guard pull to go deep half sweep, or he'd just create back exposure and take your back while standing. Regardless, he was always working to get to his strong suit of grappling. I loved watching him work his takedowns




People shat on him for not being able to get elite wrestlers like woodley, usman and weidman down, but those guys aren't exactly easy to get down. Maia had good takedowns, especially for a BJJ guy.

The problem is that he just started incorporating the wrestling heavy approach too late in his development, unfortunately.

Worked his wrestling too late and probably moved down to WW a bit late as well. Damn I just realised how many UFC fights the man actually had, he was around for a long time

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Nah, go hard or go home. I'm gonna lay into you.

Ok if thats how you want it, im going to do a deep dive into your posts to see what triggers you.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Wrestlers do learn BJJ though, they use it with decent effectiveness.
BJJ players don't have a way to get it where they want it, and that seems counterproductive.

i think a lot of them choose the Fabricio Werdum approach to their BJJ. that they'll be too good or difficult to fight on the feet forcing their opponent's to try a desperation takedown ala Cain when he lost to Werdum. wrestlers learn BJJ but they rarely use it in actual fights. guys like Usman, Stipe, Weidman, Yoel, etc., they all could've probably gotten more finishes if they see things like BJJ guys do, but they don't. it's like a hardwire for them to control and punch on the ground more than anything else.

the whole culture of BJJ is founded on this premise that it's for the smaller weaker man to contend with a larger stronger opponent. so it's already built into the culture of conceding takedowns rather than being the one that forces the fight. like how being on your back is a big part of BJJ culture. it's very submissive compared to wrestling. wrestlers never give an inch, you gotta take that shit from them and it'll be a fight because being on your back is a loss.

 

[StonedLemur]

Hahaha, same.

Lol my man

 

[Conan the K-9]

Lol, what a silly thread

Why don’t wrestlers learn the basic front headlock subs, like darce, bulldog, anaconda, even guillotine? Henry would have submitted Aljo if he had even one decent sub in his toolbox.
Why do athletes like Gaethje not learn sub defence? Why don’t the wrestlers become highlevel kickboxers?


The ADCC rules do not favor takedowns either. You get zero points for an early takedown and might put your self in danger for a sub if it does not work. Later when the points are on you get two for a secured takedown.

We do have BJJ athletes with good takedowns like Buchecha and Rodolfo, but it is still a different game when strikes, knees and kicks are involved.

Just watch the Ruotolo brothers today, highlevel BJJ, with takedowns suited for the sport. It’s a totally different sport than MMA or wrestling.

 

[Left Hook Lacy]

The BJJ guys are also often afraid of the striking, so cant set up their takedowns properly. Dern however swings wildly on the feet. Seems like she would have so many opportunities to use this to set up takedowns instead of going for the KO.

 

[Thawing Mammoth]

At least they aren't scratching their sphincters on the canvas like they used to

 

[T-dog.1337]

Why put hours in the gym and at workshops learning to wrestle when you can go to the beach, restauraunts, party with groups of friends, watch movies, and live a beautiful life?
Hahaha, its not like competition is crazy volatile, not many ppl want to get hit for a living.
Odds are, if you train to be the best, you probably will, cause most do half the work and still get a job.

 

[T-dog.1337]

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Dern's ability to close the distance / her footwork on her punches is so bad. I honestly think her issue is more to do with the way she sets up takedowns as opposed to her being unable to do it.

She landed one really nice timed blast double against Lemos, where she evaded a strike and tackled her I think? But Lemos was so far above her on the feet that she was able to make her look super awkward.

I dare say Dern has a similar approach to Koscheck, just without the wrestling pedigree. Throw big overhand, follow with TD.

 

[Tweak896]

They don't even show the basics in most cases sir.
Thats not even trying..not a ceiling issue tbf.

Yeah idk. Dern probably thought she was going to knockdown her opponents to get them to the ground. She probably should have a deeper toolbelt at this point in her career.

 

[StonedLemur]

Yeah idk. Dern probably thought she was going to knockdown her opponents to get them to the ground. She probably should have a deeper toolbelt at this point in her career.

Agreed big guy.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Because BJJ players have the ego the size of fucking mars, BJJ players are notorious for thinking that stupid shit like pulling guard will work 24/7

It's hilarious because Rogan thinks all other martial arts are cults, yet ignores the extreme cultish behaviour of the BJJ community.

 

[Normot]

Merab was a Judo guy who recognized he needed to learn wrestling and did. Maia was a BJJ guy who recognized he needed to learn wrestling and did. A BJJ champ should have the athleticism and understanding to get gud at wrestling if they make an honest effort. But they never do.

 

[BoxerMaurits]

At this point why aren't these people drilling takedowns nonstop?

If an idiot like Josh Koscheck (a born wrestler) can improve on striking, then why wouldn't these BJJ cats want the most effective way to take someone into their world?

Even after working with Cejudo, Derns takedowns look like trash.
Ortega too for that matter...am I missing something here?

View attachment 1031135

That’s what I’ve been wondering for a while sir, lol.
Too many BJJ wizards out there with shitty TD’s and non-existing striking ability.

 

[Deleted member 587672]

Judo. Sambo. BJJ. Freestyle. Greco.

I agree with you Sir Lemur but it is indeed not as natural as it seems.

I'd consider the equivalent comparison of why some good punchers simply cannot kick.

 

[Istryker]

Meh would rather work on striking,

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I don't even know that Dern's weakness is soley her takedowns these days. I think another problem is that her BJJ takes too long to net finishes. She's very smooth and methodical, but how often do we see her fight and the round ends with her in a dominant position?

This post is just about Dern though, and even furthermore I do believe Dern would benefit from superior takedowns so I wholeheartedly agree with OP, even if getting better at takedowns is easier said than done.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

That's why I liked Maia a lot. He realized this and started working with college and olympic wrestlers. He developed a sick single leg, and if it didn't work he would mix it in with a weird ass guard pull to go deep half sweep, or he'd just create back exposure and take your back while standing. Regardless, he was always working to get to his strong suit of grappling. I loved watching him work his takedowns




People shat on him for not being able to get elite wrestlers like woodley, usman and weidman down, but those guys aren't exactly easy to get down. Maia had good takedowns, especially for a BJJ guy.

The problem is that he just started incorporating the wrestling heavy approach too late in his development, unfortunately.

Maia is a solid example actually -- in his fights where he lost to superior wrestlers, I don't quite feel that his wrestling was even the bottleneck so much as his lack of refined striking and clean combinations to set up his entries.