Definitive Pride vs UFC HW

[DayV]

The main reason that this is talked about is because the big 3 from Pride were all exposed when they were only around 32 years old. These threads are an attempt from Pride fanboys to prop up the legacies of those 3.

Well Big Nog came to UFC after the buyout and went 5-6.

CroCop 6-6 1NC

Mark Hunt 8-8-1 1NC. But honestly he didn’t do great in Japan either.

Heath Herring 2-5.

I dunno, but Al these great amazing heavyweights from pride just couldn’t keep up when they fought in the UFC. Makes me think the UFC heavyweights were better.

Even new breed UFC Junior dos Santos and Cain Velasquez are finished as top fighters at the age of 32, getting losing streaks, injuryes, and bad form, and going downwards in general; with a lot less mileage than Pride guys.

JDS 4-6 after the age of 32.
Cain 1-2 after the age of 32, basically finished his career.

Guess they were also exposed.

Not to mention guys like Mir, Sylvia, Arlovski going on huge losing streaks in early-mid 30s.

 

[Holyherb420]

Cant compare them pride fighters could use peds openly

 

[I_IZ_BACK]

For me it's a clear Pride > UFC

 

[Local Plata]

They never cross promoted during their primes. Pointless debate really.

 

[HHJ]

Pointless debate really.

In the end,yes it is. Whatever promotion paid out the most money got the best fighters. Discussing it further than that doesn't really matter.

 

[Local Plata]

Randy got finished by Enson and Valentijin when he was UFC HW champ. 2 guys who were D level PRIDE HWs

In Rings, which had the goofiest fucking rules ever lmao. Way to bring up shit from the 90s though, lmao. Randy had an entire career after going to LHW.

 

[Local Plata]

In the end,yes it is. Whatever promotion paid out the most money got the best fighters. Discussing it further than that doesn't really matter.

People also selectively ignore that Ricco tooled Nog, too. Then even made him tap in ADCC.

 

[HHJ]

In Rings, which had the goofiest fucking rules ever lmao. Way to bring up shit from the 90s though, lmao. Randy had an entire career after going to LHW.

Hey If people can being up Fedor and Arona they can bring that up too. It's all silly in the end I agree.

 

[volcom5]

Who had the better HW division when Pride was around?

Newer generation fans say all the Pride fighters were overrated but let's look at who beat who.

The only fair comparison is to look at fighters who where perennial top 10 from about 2001-2010 and actually faced guys from the other org.
Fighters are categorized under a specific banner if that's where they became top fighters.

Josh Barnett is a bit of an anomaly cuz he won the UFC belt before UFC went big and then spent many yrs in Pride. I put him in a separate category.

I'm not counting guys from the early generation that fell off somewhat early (Coleman, Kerr, Goodridge, Igor, Rizzo, Randleman, Herring). I feel like it gives Pride an advantage.

I'm also not counting guys that rose post Pride. These guys came to prominence after the top UFC and top Pride rivals were clearly on the decline. (Rothwell, Nelson, Cain, JDS, Gonzaga, Brock, DC, Silva, Browne, Stipe).
I'm conflicted about Reem cuz when he was in Pride it was mostly at LHW. He's more of a Strikeforce HW like DC, Rogers, Silva

UFC HW
Arlovski, Couture, Ricco, Sylvia, Mir,

Both: Barnett

Pride HW:
Nog , Fedor, Sergei, Crocop, Werdum

UFC Record vs Pride
W: 4
L: 7

Arlovski
Wins: Werdum
Losses: Sergei, Fedor

Couture
Wins:
Losses: Nog

Ricco
Wins:
Losses: Nog

Sylvia
Wins:
Losses: Fedor, Nog

Mir
Wins: Crocop, Nog x2
Losses: Fedor

Barnett Record vs Pride & UFC
Wins over UFC: 3 - Couture, Arlovski, Mir
Losses to UFC: 0
Wins over Pride: 2 - Sergei, Nog
Losses: 3 - Crocop x2, Nog

Pride Record vs UFC:
W: 7
L: 4

Fedor
Wins: Arlovski, Sylvia, Mir
Losses:

Nog
Wins: Sylvia, Ricco, Couture
Losses: Mir x2

Sergei
Wins: Arlovski
Losses:

Crocop:
Wins:
Losses: Mir

Werdum
Wins:
Losses: Arlovski

Overall Pride HW have the better record head to head. Ricco v Nog should be a draw IMO but even with that it would be 6-3 in Prides favor.

Then when we look at Barnett he has no Losses to any of his contemporary UFC rivals, 3 Wins over UFC rivals and he's 2-3 vs Pride rivals.

If you count Barnett as UFC then the UFC v Pride Record is 10-6 in favor of Pride.

Why did you put Werdum in the Pride HW era but not Gabriel Gonzaga and not count his win over CroCop? Gonzaga and Werdum careers mirror each other from when Werdum entered Pride and Gonzaga entered the UFC…year 2005…

 

[Thy]

dunno, never will, don't care. pride was entertaining though.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Why did you put Werdum in the Pride HW era but not Gabriel Gonzaga and not count his win over CroCop? Gonzaga and Werdum careers mirror each other from when Werdum entered Pride and Gonzaga entered the UFC…year 2005…

Most people who followed MMA back then have a very poor understanding of when primes started and ended. Some fans like to watch Werdum as a finished product in Pride, for whatever reason.

 

[HHJ]

Lol @ making this a thread

 

[HHJ]

Randy got finished by Enson and Valentijin when he was UFC HW champ. 2 guys who were D level PRIDE HWs

Yes but this particular fact doesn't really mean anything at all

Randy got better and those guys who beat him regressed.

And even if they hadn't regressed, Those guys would never have done what Randy did in UFC

 

[Deleted member 110072]

At the time Pride had a much deeper HW division than the UFC. Then of course once Pride got bought out and shut down by the UFC, the UFC took that #1 spot.

Thats the issue of course "Pride HW's" stopped being created after 2007 so you had a naturally aging talent pool were as "UFC HW's" carried on being created. Honestly even given that its quite shocking how long Pride HW's were relevant, Reem, Werdum, Hunt, Barnett(although was a UFC HW first) were high ranked HW's though to the mid 2010's.

What I would say though is that when people talk about the strenght of the Pride HW division there really talking about how strong it became after 2000, whenpeople like Fedor, Nog, Crocop, Werdum, Sergei, Hunt, Aleks, etc were involved. You go back a bit before that and its definately more questionable with a decent case for the UFC division being better.

Pride basically ended up consolidating a lot of HW talent when RINGS went into decline and Inoki didnt really take off and was the top of the sport for about 5-6 years.

 

[Tito Tapped]

Pride had the better HW roster. I'm one of the biggest Pride haters here and this is just an obvious fact.

They also promoted the use of steroids and built their HWs popularity by throwing them in uncompeditive mismatches.

And I can't even be mad at that. That shit would be more fun than what the UFC puts out now.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Pride had the better HW roster. I'm one of the biggest Pride haters here and this is just an obvious fact.

They also promoted the use of steroids and built their HWs popularity by throwing them in uncompeditive mismatches.

And I can't even be mad at that. That shit would be more fun than what the UFC puts out now.

As far as "mismatches" go I think the big issue is Pride kept fighters much more active, someone like Crocop fought 8 times in 2004 and it was a mix of fights vs Randleman, Barnett, Aleks and lesser opponents on Bushido cards.