deep half guard in mma (Shogun)

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by condoriano, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. condoriano

    condoriano Orange Belt

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    Why don't more fighters work on a deep half guard, like the one Shogun uses for sweeps/ leg lock attempts. I think the only guy Shogun couldn't sweep from that position was Jones.
    It is also a safe position, as you are protected from hard punches.
     
  2. Lars

    Lars Purple Belt

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    big nog do it even batter
     
  3. Magnum1978

    Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    Deep half can be dangerous on somebody with excellent base or deep half defense, you're head is open for the taking. You have to be very slick with the position to work it well in MMA.

    Gustavo falciroli worked it quite well against Bibano Fernandes in his recent OneFC fight, but there aint too many who go to it.
     
  4. KingOfTheTrill**

    KingOfTheTrill** White Belt

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  5. QTdd**

    QTdd** Green Belt

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    Shogun's sweeps don't come from deep half.
    A lot of people just don't have the technique to sweep from there.
     
  6. The Patient One

    The Patient One Green Belt

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    Big Nog went for one in his last fight, I don't recall Shogun attempting to enter deep half. Correct me to fights and rounds if I'm wrong.

    Shogun goes for a Helicopter sweep and an underhook to stand back up. You can see him do that against Machida in the 2nd fight. But I don't recall him utilizing deep half...?

    Edit: Helicopter Sweep is what Rogan called it and what I call it, but it's just a variation of the pendulum/windmill sweep from full guard (sort of) and could be called alot of names.
     
  7. The Reed

    The Reed Red Belt

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    The Nog brothers and Fabricio Werdum have shown some good skills with this.
     
  8. condoriano

    condoriano Orange Belt

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  9. TerrorSherrer

    TerrorSherrer Purple Belt

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    and the thing about it is when someone is striking u from top of half, they cant stop u and pressure u from getting up under their hips into deep half. i have no idea why it isnt used more, i saw big nog use it vs herman but he wasnt very effective with it. shogun gets into the position and instead of sweeping from it hell go into a leglock position, but still sets it up from the deep half. highly under utilized guard in MMA.
     
  10. Threetrees

    Threetrees Season Mode

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    You run the danger of leaving your head exposed since striking is involved, especially against someone bigger or with a good base <- See the Jones fight
    Jones controlled Shogun's neck with his arms, and watched for Shogun's favorite moves from the bottom (deep half, leg locks, triangle threat etc).
     
  11. Apple Pie

    Apple Pie Green Belt

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    Feijao did a nice sweep from deep half on Hendo.
     
  12. SnowBlynd

    SnowBlynd Red Belt

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    I'm always suprised thay every fighter doesnt develop a solid half guard. That would be a lot of what I would work if I were a fighter. Aside from nogs game I would also use a lot of Eddie bravos game like the lockdown to oldschool sweep, etc.
     
  13. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    I think you should train before deciding that half-guard is a magical position that sweeps everyone.
     
  14. Fight Gone Bad

    Fight Gone Bad Brown Belt

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    I love half guard but this statement says it all. If you arent active enough especially against high level guys you're going to get killed.
     
  15. TerrorSherrer

    TerrorSherrer Purple Belt

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    i still would say mma doesnt utilize many strong half guard sweeps that u see in no gi bjj. im not talking about tornado guards etc, but i think things like x guard and one legged x could be utilized in mma
     
  16. BJ@LW&WW

    [email protected]&WW Gold Belt

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    if you botch your entry to deep half, you could end up in a half guard with only one arm to defend. I'm guessing that plays a decent factor. there have been times when i rolled with much larger opponents that this has happened to me and i could imagine if striking were allowed, I'd be rather defenseless.
     
  17. AndyGoaty**

    AndyGoaty** Banned Banned

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    Burying your head seems like a good idea imo, can't hit the back of the head.
     
  18. Moth82

    Moth82 White Belt

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    It's just a riskier position, half guard allows you more movement from the bottom, but it also allows the guy on top more freedom. Add this to the fact that striking is allowed in MMA where the top guy will then get an automatic huge advantage as he is striking from top position and its a scary place for the guy on the bottom.

    If you watch a lot of people with a strong G'n'P game and they generally like to be put in any form of half as they can maintain control of the guy and generate a lot more power to hit him.

    I think a lot of what works in straight BJJ goes out of the window as soon as you introduce strikes.
     
  19. van1ty

    van1ty Banned Banned

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    OP, shogun doesn't use deep half guard. please stop.
     
  20. Linthec

    Linthec Orange Belt

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    The reason you don't see a lot of it is because deep half puts you in an atrocious position to be punched and difficult to get out of if you get stuffed. If you want to use it in mma, you have to just go for it and be prepared to immediately sweep, come up with a leg, or bail. This means you can't really be as tight as the position demands which is why a lot of people that do use deep half end up losing the position. I guess that's ok because losing it often means getting off bottom, but there is certainly a risk of danger to putting your stuffing your head next to the thigh.

    The best use of deep half guard in mma was from Andre Galvao. Watch his fight with Jason High.
     

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