Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 23] - Cross-Trainin´ in MMA´s 'Dark Ages'...

[Tallblackfat]

Cross training was always a thing it just wasnt common or socially acceptable in the same way.

My Grandfather made 102 years old (still did pad work at 102) ,when he was younger he wrestled and boxed ,did gymnastic training and atheletic to be rounded this is in the 1930s lots of guys did but the Wrestlers didnt like the Boxers and vice versa you had to hide it because each outfit didnt want secrets or info shared


Im not saying he would be on par with modern MMA but also some of his tool kit would now be unknown and lost due to time and rules etc

I

 

[tenniswhiz]

This would make for an interesting topic. The fighters out of Brazil branching out to teach others competing in mma in the early days

Nothing wrong with that in itself.

It just seems wrong to prepare a guy to fight with your former instructor.

 

[HHJ]

Nothing wrong with that in itself.

It just seems wrong to prepare a guy to fight with your former instructor.

Esp it seems much more easily avoidable then,and also controversial. People wouldnt care that much now.

 

[Mr.Burns]

MYTH : Cross-training started in the 2000s, the previous eras can all be considered MMA´s dark ages, simply one-dimensional.

Wowzer. So much stuff.


PS : btw, I would appreciate it if you could answer this question : what would transpire of Khabib got a grip on Bruce Lee?

 

[HHJ]

Dont feed the troll @gono btw

 

[Mr.Burns]

Dont feed the troll @gono btw

I suppose you are addressing me. No trolling here really. It is a simple question. This is not a trick.

 

[gono btw]

Cross training was always a thing it just wasnt common or socially acceptable in the same way.

My Grandfather made 102 years old (still did pad work at 102) ,when he was younger he wrestled and boxed ,did gymnastic training and atheletic to be rounded this is in the 1930s lots of guys did but the Wrestlers didnt like the Boxers and vice versa you had to hide it because each outfit didnt want secrets or info shared


Im not saying he would be on par with modern MMA but also some of his tool kit would now be unknown and lost due to time and rules etc

I

Wrasslers vs Boxers, GJJ vs other BJJ, BJJ vs Capoeira, BJJ vs Luta Livre,Wrasslers vs BJJ...

Many NHB 'ideologies' back in the days...

Reminded me of a story about Nick Baturin (a samboist, happened to lose vs Hickson jus´b4 he himself lost to Ron Tripp in 1993)..

He started trainin´ BJJ under Hoyce, then under Horion... Because of his leglocks knowledge, he would submit people left & right @ Horion´s gym, and higher ranked students would eventually start to feel resentful about it, to the point that Horion would ask him to stop usin´ these techniques (Baturin would then leave the gym...)...

Even though Helio did give props to Fadda´s academy when his students won the challenge against his, the bias was still real against leglocks...

 

[gono btw]

Wowzer. So much stuff.


PS : btw, I would appreciate it if you could answer this question : what would transpire of Khabib got a grip on Bruce Lee?

Spoiler

 

[HHJ]

Wrasslers vs Boxers, GJJ vs other BJJ, BJJ vs Capoeira, BJJ vs Luta Livre,Wrasslers vs BJJ...

Many NHB 'ideologies' back in the days...

Reminded me of a story about Nick Baturin (a samboist, happened to lose vs Hickson jus´b4 he himself lost to Ron Tripp in 1993)..

He started trainin´ BJJ under Hoyce, then under Horion... Because of his leglocks knowledge, he would submit people left & right @ Horion´s gym, and higher ranked students would eventually start to feel resentful about it, to the point that Horion would ask him to stop usin´ these techniques (Baturin would then leave the gym...)...

Even though Helio did give props to Fadda´s academy when his students won the challenge against his, the bias was still real against leglocks...

That's what I'm Interested in. A rejection of things that clearly work.

 

[gono btw]

That's what I'm Interested in. A rejection of things that clearly work.

I even suspect that dudes like Horion and Helson are even more 'hardcore' than Helio...

 

[HHJ]

I even suspect that dudes like Horion and Helson are even more 'hardcore' than Helio...

I think so. They didnt want to let Oleg in for that initially either for the same reason. Helio seemed alot less like that considering his "adaptable" mindset.

 

[Threetrees]

Gono your threads are interesting but your grasp of logic and argument structure is awful lol

 

[Mr.Burns]

View attachment 499889

Thanks, just to confirm for absolute clarity, in your opinion Khabib would have his way the the popular actor, right?

Btw, do you consider him an mma artist or a competitor? Or he is just that, a popular movie star?

 

[gono btw]

https://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/carlson-gracie-junior
“In 1995 Carlson Junior made his no-holds-barred official début against John Lewis. The bout was not without controversy as Lewis was prepared by one of Carlson Senior’s former students, André Pederneiras. Carlson was vocal at the time in the sport’s media, expressing his discontent over his former student’s decision. The fight ended in a draw.”

I didn’t know John Lewis was working with Pederneiras before this fight. I knew he got a black belt from him later on.

I don’t know exactly what Helio’s “ideology” is.
I’ve only heard Rorion and Royce claim that they are practicing something different.
I also don’t know a single aspect of a single technique that Helio “refined”.

Iz normal.

Carlson was from the ol´school... Believed in 'clans'...and traitors ('creontes')...

After his draw against [Luta Livre] Ivan Gomes, he became friends with him, and they started to cross-train together, but under 1 condition: Ivan would never challenge him again.

Check the different 'ideologies' between different BJJ branches > the 1954 Challenge between Oswaldo Fadda´s students vs [Helio] Gracie BJJ´s students,
See the Horion/Baturin episode...
See Helson´s comments after Hoyce´s loss vs Hughes...

 

[gono btw]

Gono your threads are interesting but your grasp of logic and argument structure is awful lol

You´ll get used to it.

 

[91 seconds]

There was that period in the mid to late 90s early 2000's with NHB that really did showcase what worked and what didn't. You take away gloves and allow hair pulling, headbutt's, knees on the ground to the face etc..you really saw how brutal the fight game was. I don't think half the guys doing MMA today would even consider going into NHB even if the pay was the same. You'd have a totally different landscape of guys.

 

[gono btw]

I think so. They didnt want to let Oleg in for that initially either for the same reason. Helio seemed alot less like that considering his "adaptable" mindset.

They were all rookies...in this new market..

Hoyce actually rolled with Nick Baturin, they say it was competitive but Hoyce slightly dominated...

 

[gono btw]

Thanks, just to confirm for absolute clarity, in your opinion Khabib would have his way the the popular actor, right?

Btw, do you consider him an mma artist or a competitor? Or he is just that, a popular movie star?

how many NHB fights?

 

[HHJ]

You´ll get used to it.

Rorion esque answer

 

[gono btw]

There was that period in the mid to late 90s early 2000's with NHB that really did showcase what worked and what didn't. You take away gloves and allow hair pulling, headbutt's, knees on the ground to the face etc..you really saw how brutal the fight game was. I don't think half the guys doing MMA today would even consider going into NHB even if the pay was the same. You'd have a totally different landscape of guys.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-paulson-got-kimo-ed-badly.3831975/

Ah the Tournaments days... 3-4-5 fights per night...

Spoiler: Compulsory...