Social Dean Cain complains Superman Movie is too Woke & Pro-Immigration

[Texan6533]

Sounds like he was criticizing no rules immigration, not immigration itself….

 

[jeremyemilio]

The essay I presented you explicitly portrayed Superman's significance in contrast to immigrants, and his role in a legal framework that systemically favors native patriots (to adopt icky terminology I usually avoid). It dismisses his status as an "immigrant" as significant altogether. In fact, it's not preoccupied with immigration, at all. The focus is on divinity, power, and what it means to be good: a classic philosophical consideration of religious values & the Ubermensch.

Historically, that has been far more important to whether or not we humans accepted him in these stories. His "otherness" has practically nothing to do with his status as an "immigrant", but his status as a demigod living among us, and the sources of authority whose notions of justice he would project.

But... that's the first of the two major issues that I stated were at the forefront. No? I specifically stated that there were two and that was the first.

 

[Madmick]

But... that's the first of the two major issues that I stated were at the forefront. No? I specifically stated that there were two and that was the first.

You're failing to grasp what's important. Superman isn't a literal immigrant in the story. Ergo, for that metaphorical interpretation of him to be important, he must be interpreted to be an immigrant (as by the artist or critic). When that isn't explicit, or when as I showed, the opposite is explicit, it demonstrates that this interpretation of his origin isn't necessarily inherent to the value of his character.

That's why the controversy may exist entirely external to any fictional content containing Superman. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know if Gunn actually implements his interpretation in a meaningful way for this particular telling, but it would just be one telling. Many contemporary liberals are seeking to appropriate and leverage cultural IP towards their personal partisan preoccupations right now, but naturally, this is a revisionist reinterpretation that is often used in myth cycles, and not inherent to the myth itself.

After all, today's present issue is about whether or not Americans will accept mass migration. Superman wasn't part of a mass migration. He came alone. In the original story, Americans aren't even aware Clark is an immigrant, at all. He disguises himself as a native Kansan. There isn't deliberation over whether or not they should permit him legal status as a citizen. So it isn't particularly relevant to our current political conundrum, at all. Gunn is imposing that. Moreover, the only value of interpreting this as the metaphorical immigration of an illegal who evades detection out of a fear he will be ejected is if the particular Superman episode (or critical analysis of it) preoccupies itself with this reading. If not, then it's irrelevant, and easily dispensed from a core consideration of the character's virtue.

 

[High Test With da Best]

One of my favorite scenes from any show was in The Unit.

The roll call at the funeral. Wrecked me. That entire episode was fantastic.

@Substance Abuse in case you're also interested:

1:45 for the funeral scene.

Gotdayum...



Seasons 3+4 got a little lame but this was a standout plot line and scene

 

[High Test With da Best]

@Substance Abuse in case you're also interested:

1:45 for the funeral scene.

Gotdayum...

@Substance Abuse anything else you'd recommend with Dennis Haysbert? This is all I've seen him in besides the insurance commercials, very impressed

 

[jeremyemilio]

You're failing to grasp what's important. Superman isn't a literal immigrant in the story. Ergo, for that metaphorical interpretation of him to be important, he must be interpreted to be an immigrant (as by the artist or critic). When that isn't explicit, or when as I showed, the opposite is explicit, it demonstrates that this interpretation of his origin isn't necessarily inherent to the value of his character.

That's why the controversy may exist entirely external to any fictional content containing Superman. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know if Gunn actually implements his interpretation in a meaningful way for this particular telling, but it would just be one telling. Many contemporary liberals are seeking to appropriate and leverage cultural IP towards their personal partisan preoccupations right now, but naturally, this is a revisionist reinterpretation that is often used in myth cycles, and not inherent to the myth itself.

After all, today's present issue is about whether or not Americans will accept mass migration. Superman wasn't part of a mass migration. He came alone. In the original story, Americans aren't even aware Clark is an immigrant, at all. He disguises himself as a native Kansas. There isn't deliberation over whether or not they should permit him legal status as a citizen. So it isn't particularly relevant to our current political conundrum, at all. Gunn is imposing that. Moreover, the only value of interpreting this as the metaphorical immigration of an illegal who evades detection out of a fear he will be ejected is if the particular Superman episode (or critical analysis of it) preoccupies itself with this reading. If not, then it's irrelevant, and easily dispensed from a core consideration of the character's virtue.

I don't think that all versions or readings of Superman include this consideration. I acknowledged from the start that there are thousands of collaborators over the course of almost a century and so, of course, representations and readings vary. I only said that when we look at the mythos as a whole there are two main threads at work that continue to emerge, that the immigrant or "stranger in a strange land" thread is one of these, and that this is a longtime reading of the story, not one that has just been newly introduced along with "wokeness."

I also think it's important to note that there's a reversal at work in the Superman mythos: Clark is the mask; Superman is the true identity. Superman being from Krypton (and thus, yes, definitely a literal immigrant) is open knowledge in the DC universe and is key to the way the people of Earth and the US perceive and interact with him. And as I've pointed out, his entire origin story is an echo of what was happening at the time he was created in the lives of the demographic group of people his creators were a part of. Again, it's 1938. Jews are fleeing Europe en masse. They have no homeland to return to as Israel no longer existed. Many of them changed names to pass off as non Jews and make a new life in a new nation. This is exactly Superman's story. Are you seriously suggesting Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster didn't notice any of this?

Also, I'd recommend the movie. I think there are parts of it that you might well find at odds with your political leanings, but it really presents these issues as complex and gives voice to different perspectives. All in all, it's a fun film, though definitely not a perfect one.

 

[milliniar]

Maybe I missed it but saw this about Dean cain comments lol.



And a bonus Smallville.

 

[ermac88]

 

[Madmick]

I don't think that all versions or readings of Superman include this consideration. I acknowledged from the start that there are thousands of collaborators over the course of almost a century and so, of course, representations and readings vary. I only said that when we look at the mythos as a whole there are two main threads at work that continue to emerge, that the immigrant or "stranger in a strange land" thread is one of these, and that this is a longtime reading of the story, not one that has just been newly introduced along with "wokeness."

I also think it's important to note that there's a reversal at work in the Superman mythos: Clark is the mask; Superman is the true identity. Superman being from Krypton (and thus, yes, definitely a literal immigrant) is open knowledge in the DC universe and is key to the way the people of Earth and the US perceive and interact with him. And as I've pointed out, his entire origin story is an echo of what was happening at the time he was created in the lives of the demographic group of people his creators were a part of. Again, it's 1938. Jews are fleeing Europe en masse. They have no homeland to return to as Israel no longer existed. Many of them changed names to pass off as non Jews and make a new life in a new nation. This is exactly Superman's story. Are you seriously suggesting Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster didn't notice any of this?

Also, I'd recommend the movie. I think there are parts of it that you might well find at odds with your political leanings, but it really presents these issues as complex and gives voice to different perspectives. All in all, it's a fun film, though definitely not a perfect one.

This is not an "immigrant" thread. As I just pointed out, no, when interpretation portrays him as the native homegrown patriot boy, there is no element of him as an "immigrant". You're deliberately imposing the immigrant interpretation on the "stranger in a strange land". After all, he's only a stranger by species. It isn't a "strange land" to him. He grew up here. He was effectively born here. It's the only one he's ever known. In fact, in many versions, he doesn't even discover he is an alien or what Krypton is until he is in his preteen or teen years. He believes he's human. His origins and the world from which he came he learns about in the fortress of solitude are the "strange land" to him.

 

[jeremyemilio]

This is not an "immigrant" thread. As I just pointed out, no, when interpretation portrays him as the native homegrown patriot boy, there is no element of him as an "immigrant". You're deliberately imposing the immigrant interpretation on the "stranger in a strange land". After all, he's only a stranger by species. It isn't a "strange land" to him. He grew up here. He was effectively born here. It's the only one he's ever known. In fact, in many versions, he doesn't even discover he is an alien or what Krypton is until he is in his preteen or teen years. He believes he's human. His origins and the world from which he came he learns about in the fortress of solitude are the "strange land" to him.

I think we've both said our piece, and have fleshed out some pretty good readings in the process. We're still at odds, but that's probably to be expected so I'm content to leave it there. Thanks for the exchange.

 

[Deaths Head]

Isn’t superman an illegal immigrant? I think they’d be okay with promoting immigration.

Dean himself claimed to be an illegal immigrant as Superman in one of his episodes where government officials start rushing him with documents and basically harassing him on his rights to be here ( I’m not even making this up it was an actual episode ) , the guy like most MAGAs just don’t make sense and reading his comment is even just more proof how out of touch with reality these guys are . Lol

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Dean himself claimed to be an illegal immigrant as Superman in one of his episodes where government officials start rushing him with documents and basically harassing him on his rights to be here ( I’m not even making this up it was an actual episode ) , the guy like most MAGAs just don’t make sense and reading his comment is even just more proof how out of touch with reality these guys are . Lol

Well, since it’s woke, I guess the movie will go broke.

 

[Deaths Head]

Well, since it’s woke, I guess the movie will go broke.

It’s not woke it’s just a over the top sillier version of representation of a comic book version of the character , it works in spots but not so much in others .

Superman is a based woke character though based on the definition from the original idea he’s not even created by what Maga ideologies are because he was created by a Jewish and Canadian so ? Lol

 

[rearnakedchoke]

It’s not woke it’s just a over the top sillier version of representation of a comic book version of the character , it works in spots but not so much in others .

Superman is a based woke character though based on the definition from the original idea he’s not even created by what Maga ideologies are because he was created by a Jewish and Canadian so ? Lol

Oh. I know. I just like using the term that the right can’t even define. Yet they love throwing it around.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

 

[deviake]

Never been a Superman fan, suddenly I want to this movie meow

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Never been a Superman fan, suddenly I want to this movie meow

All the bullshit and drama aside, it was great. Gunn did a very goof job capturing the spirit of the characters and make a grounded superman story

 

[deviake]

Maybe I missed it but saw this about Dean cain comments lol.



And a bonus Smallville.

Culture war jockeys getting dunked on will never stop being amusing

All the bullshit and drama aside, it was great. Gunn did a very goof job capturing the spirit of the characters and make a grounded superman story

Right on

 

[KaNesDeath]

DC animated movie i watched back in the early 2010's where Superman was found and adopted by a Mexican family while illegally immigrating to the USA.

Comic books in general deal with a ton of themes.

 

[Limbo Pete]

"Superman is too woke!" says people not realizing he is an illegal alien of the most literal kind