deadlift benefits for fighters?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by frango, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    So, this is maybe a total noob question...but hey, this is the right place to ask, right?

    Im deadlifting twice a week and i like it.Thats a good thing.

    I know the DL is one of the most complete exercises available as it works almost the whole body. BUT: as a martial artist who punches, kicks, block punches, and therefore rotates the torso etc etc etc...What are the benefits from deadlifting in martial arts?

    i know it works your core too, but can anyone be more specific?

    Aint squats better?

    If you had to choose between squats and deadlifts for your training program, which one would you choose? (assuming your goal is to perform better in combat sports)

    Thanks for your inputs.
     
  2. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    This is open for debate.

    I'd choose the squat.
     
  3. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

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    there isn't a good reason why you would choose only one over the other if you can do both. They're both pretty important.

    That being said, if I had to choose one, I'd probably pick the squat for strictly combat sports purposes.
     
  4. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    ok
    but what are the benefits of deadlifting for martial arts/combat sports?

    would it be a simple answer as "you get stronger in general" so you can hit harder?
     
  5. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Why not alternate? I lift twice a week and every 3-4 weeks I cycle out squats and deads. My lifts when I return to it (eg. 2nd squat cycle) are fine and hasn't gone down.

    But if I had to choose, I'd probably choose squats. I find I can recover quicker from squats than deads (DOMS).
     
  6. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    What's your current programming like right now?
     
  7. ThinkGreen

    ThinkGreen Der Übermensch

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    More or less, yes. But getting "stronger" doesn't really make you hit harder. Hitting hard is a result of sound technique.
     
  8. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    mine?
    i lift on monday and thursday.
    DL
    BP
    OHP 4x5
    chin-ups

    its waved periodization.
    Im doing the tactical barbell fighter template with a modified heavy cluster.

    i was doing squats before i start doing DL.

    But i dont know if you were talking to me...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  9. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    I understand what you are saying.I think...
    I dont understand "-sound- technique". What does it mean? A good technique?

    if that is it, i agree,ok.
     
  10. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    Yes, you.

    I don't know enough about the tactical barbell program cluster fuck to comment, so I will leve it at that.
     
  11. ThinkGreen

    ThinkGreen Der Übermensch

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    Yep, sound technique just means good/correct technique.
     
  12. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    Flexibility, strength of core, hip mobility.
    3 of the most important things in martial arts.

    All major lifts are beneficial to martial arts. I think bench-press is most irrelevant depending on body type, but it's still very beneficial.
     
  13. FyrFytr998

    FyrFytr998 Gemtor Belt

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    Deadlift benefits for fighters?

     
  14. JauntyAngle

    JauntyAngle International man of mystery

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    Something like this:

    When you stand up, roughly three thing happen. First, your leg straightens out at the knee (using your quads). Second, your hips move forward (using your glutes and hams). Third, your torso will probably straighten (using muscles along the back). Squats and deadlifts train these movements and these muscles. (Actually with the back they train it more by making you hold your position rather than actively straightening up, but let's ignore that detail for a minute.)

    These movements are just really useful in most sports, including fighting. Straightening the leg and pushing the hip through is involved in so many movements- running, jumping, kicking, and so on and so on. The ability to straighten the torso or to resist being pulled down and bent over is also really beneficial. If you know your sport, you should be able to figure out how these movements are needed in your sport.

    As I said, squats and deadlifts involve the same basic movement and train the same basic properties. There are just a few differences. The most important ones I know of are this:

    - The relative contribution of the movements, and the muscles, tends to be a bit different. Specifically, most squats are more knee extension and less hip extension than deadlifts. If you do front squats, for example, there isn't much hip extension at all, it's really knee-extension dominant. When you do a deadlift, there is always tonnes of hip extension, especially if you start with your hips high.
    - Squats are usually done with much more range of motion. The amount of leg movement in a lot of deadlifts is similar to what is done in a quarter squat.
    - Most people can deadlift more than they can squat, so it allows heavier loads. Some people are more confident failing a max effort deadlift than they are a max effort squat, so it can be a better choice for very high intensity work.
    - In deadlifts you can end up in a more forward-leaning position than in normal squat (depending on your squat technique). With that plus the additional weight, you can get more stimulus for your back and more training for the "back straightening/not being bent over" quality.


    It depends on your exact fighting discipline and how developed your strength is.

    For how developed your strength is... Every athlete (and fighter) should have some base level of strength- roughly the amount of "noob gains" that you can get while also training your sport, pushed harder or less hard depending how important strength or power is for your sport. If you don't yet have this base of strength, you should really do both. However... if I had to pick one I would say squat. Because you are still developing basic physical qualities, and you want to develop strength over a larger Range of Motion. If you need extra back-work or grip work you can get that some other way.

    Once you have the base of strength it would be quite possible to focus on just one of them. You would need to analyze the movement patterns of your sport. Especially, you would look to see how often you use leg strength over a large range of motion. If you are regularly doing it from a large knee angle, that would favour squats. If you rarely bend much at the knee, that would favour deadlifts. You would also look at how often you are leaning forward and having to straighten up or not be pulled down. If that is really important you might go for deadlifts (or low bar squats).

    In practice, though, you wouldn't pick one to do for all time. Even if you have developed your strength base and decided to focus on one for sports specific reasons, you would still do the other sometimes- to avoid losing strength in the movement and for variety.
     
  15. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    I won't repeat what Jaunty said, but I will say it's a very good post, and you should definitely read it carefully, and not just skim it or something.

    To expand on it, and the that martial arts (or many sports) involve rotation, whereas squats and deadlifts are in a single plane:

    First, the same muscles are still trained - for example, all the muscles that rotate the hips are still trained in a squat and deadlift. While you would benefit from including some supplemental rotational exercises, the squat and deadlift are still excellent lifts. This approach is also much more practical to implement - who ever heard of a 1rm rotational exercise?

    Second, even in rotational movements, many of the individual joint actions are the same as they are in a squat or deadlift. For example, knee extension stays the same, regardless of whether we're talking a squat, or some rotational movement.

    A lot of people like to talk about movement in different planes, or multiple planes, or rotational movements, like there's a big gap left by traditional big lifts that needs to be filled. But, really, we're not structured to produce powerful movements of that nature, and a lot of athletic skills are about orientating ourself into a position where we are more effective. For example, you'll rarely see someone try to sprint sideways, instead, we turn, and then sprint.
     
  16. Synapse

    Synapse Blue Belt

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    To add more about this "gap":

    A lot of emerging evidence, both from research and from a many of the top S&C coaches who actually train pro athletes, indicates that this gap isn't something that needs to be trained for. Athletes are amazingly good at cramming themselves into the patterns they already know, and there seems to be little benefit for trying to prepare them for a million different novel movements.

    A great example would be DeFranco's stance on "agility training" - which is basically that he doesn't really do it. With the NFL players he trains, he basically states that he hammers the core principles of speed training (get strong as hell, focus on technique, improve stride length, etc.), gets guys just playing their sport, and the rest takes care of itself. No long cone drill sessions, no ladder work, just very refined base patterns and experience in the sport.

    You'll see a lot less evidence for this approach in MMA because MMA S&C is usually pretty terrible, but my hunch is that it's a better way to train fighters as well.
     
  17. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    Hmmm

    Get stronger, improve technique with practice? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Seems like the same stuff that is said in almost every other thread that gets started on the subject.

    For the vast majority, if not every single person posting in Sherdog, training for their martial arts should incorprate that very basic concept.
     
  18. ssdd

    ssdd Purple Belt

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    Battle ropes bro
     
  19. Kiwi Tricker

    Kiwi Tricker Green Belt

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    Bosu sprawls and TGUs breh
     
  20. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    That and I don't see a lot of sense in loading rotation since for most field athletes, limit strength isn't what they're trying to access when they rotate- it's acceleration. I don't need to use some weird-ass full contact twist variant when the athlete can just throw a medicine ball at maximum speed after completing their normal-ass strength work. No need to learn a new technique or anything they probably didn't already do in PE.
     

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