DC: Jon Jones can’t be the GOAT because failed drug tests ‘eliminate you from the conversation'

DC's probably been tested for steroids over his lifetime more than anybody in the sport because of his wrestling and Olympic background if someone has a right to believe in something like that it's Cormier
 
it was illegal in baseball (From 1991).

The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Major League players or personnel involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game…

This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription.
​
hard to argue too hard against what he said overall, although he did try to sweep the first fight in there, which he shouldn't do....
 
His conclusion seems obviously right, but I'm sceptical of the argument he gives for it. "In baseball, bad tests eliminate you from being considered and being in the Hall of Fame and you’re hitting a ball. You’re hitting an object that has no feeling. In fighting, you’re punching people, human beings, and you have bad tests that eliminates you. It’s just too dangerous." Sure, cheating in a combat sport is more dangerous than cheating in baseball. That may make it morally worse. However, it doesn't imply that the cheating martial artist gains a greater advantage than the cheating baseball player. But the Hall of Fame acknowledges skill, not morality. What makes the cheating athlete ineligible for distinction isn't his unscrupulousness, but the fact that he lacked the skill to follow the rules and win. Or rather, the rules define what winning means in the context of a given sport. If the HOF were a judgment on an athlete's moral standing, then you'd have to eliminate Matt Hughes for being a sketchy individual, even though he was an impeccable, high-achieving competitor.
 
Nah. DC is always talking down on others instead of giving them credit. Always excuses and complaining. He should try to be more positive. He will have a better life.

That being said, to get into the top 3 goat talks, Jones will need to go outside his comfort zone and beat some top HWs.
 
r-harper-1 said:
Speculation at its finest
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So fine that I would call it an educated guess rather than speculation. Jones had fought Cormier before, he had surely also watched tape of his fights. He also knew what difference drugs made to his abilities. With all that background knowledge, he estimated that fighting Cormier clean wouldn't favour him, and preferred to take his chances with USADA. He might have surprised himself if he had fought clean, but his judgment was clearly well informed.
 
PizzaandBeer said:
Steroids are like that and not everyone uses them, you can’t prove they do. The guys that have had huge success are the ones that got caught using them.

Steroids/PEDs make all the difference
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Prove it.
Tons of middle of the road guys never got popped but years after retirement were busted . Juice isn’t magic or everyone would use it


Which everyone does

so which is it?
 
cormier must feel pretty conflicted about jones lol. he knows he beat him twice, yet relies on the failed drug tests to prove he's not the best. what i want to know, is if cormier thinks he's better than jones or not. he may feel that the fights would have been different without ped's, but in his heart he may not truly believe that. who knows.
 
Cormier will forever be salty over Jones. It's starting to come off as pathetic lately.
 
Number 8 said:
He can be the PED Goat, Anderson being with him in the same category...


Imagine prime Fedor on roids >:)
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Annnnnnnnddddd, u know he wasn't bc........?????? People who think that Fedor couldn't have possibly ever taken juice in an era and where it was encouraged is very comical. Maybe he didn't, but to think there's no way is just naïve.
 
eatu4tea said:
Also DC responding to why he considers his losses to Jones genuine losses: "I know I've fought guys on steroids before and I beat them so....". He is just salty nowadays because he is retired now after getting sent to the shadow realm twice by Stipe Miocic effectively removing himself from the GOAT conversation.

Also a bit rich coming from the guy that cheated a weight cut. Weight advantage matters more on fight day than any PEDs as they have been off cycle for a while leading up to the fight.
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OMG that last sentence was the dumbest of the whole thread. U have definitely showed u have never competed in any sport. Steroids are as big an advantage as anything to ever hit sports.
 
Wand claude van-damme said:
older, smaller, past their prime guys? he's cleared out the whole division. His last couple fights have been against young lions who are just as big.
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And it is widely believed that he lost. That young lion Thiago Santos is older than Jones.
 
felmmando said:
So fine that I would call it an educated guess rather than speculation. Jones had fought Cormier before, he had surely also watched tape of his fights. He also knew what difference drugs made to his abilities. With all that background knowledge, he estimated that fighting Cormier clean wouldn't favour him, and preferred to take his chances with USADA. He might have surprised himself if he had fought clean, but his judgment was clearly well informed.
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do you think he cycled tbol between the 7th and the 28th?
 
Cormier is correct, at the very least if we're talking about what Jones has achieved since USADA was introduced.

This is also the reason why i'd put Anderson Silva quite a bit higher on the list of the best fighters of all time than Jones.
Silva's best accomplishments took place pre USADA and the vast majority of his opponents have tested positive too.

One last thing regarding DC; the guy is 5'11", obese (not a diss) and had his best wins at the age of 35 to almost 40 while fighting giants.
That's just incredible.
 
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