Crime Dayton, OH Nightclub Shooting: 9 Dead, 26 Injured

ithinktheymad said:
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I own you
 
The El Paso shooter killed based on race. The Dayton shooter killed because he felt like he was bullied.
 
second sight said:
worth reading

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-04/el-paso-dayton-gilroy-mass-shooters-data
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Thanks.

@sloppypie, that article is a nice representation of the circumspect view.

For two years, we’ve been studying the life histories of mass shooters in the United States for a project funded by the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Justice. We’ve built a database dating back to 1966 of every mass shooter who shot and killed four or more people in a public place, and every shooting incident at schools, workplaces, and places of worship since 1999. We’ve interviewed incarcerated perpetrators and their families, shooting survivors and first responders. We’ve read media and social media, manifestos, suicide notes, trial transcripts and medical records.

Our goal has been to find new, data-driven pathways for preventing such shootings. Although we haven’t found that mass shooters are all alike, our data do reveal four commonalities among the perpetrators of nearly all the mass shootings we studied.
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Make no mistake. All these deaths are the result of right wing mental illness. Conservative policies pushing people beaten down by corporations to the brink. White supremacy running rampant.
 
Mr Holmes said:
Cliffs? Its behind a paywall for me.
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The key trends in the data are:
  • Early age experience with violence
  • Identifiable crisis points
  • Learn from past shooters and used them to validate their own motives
  • Access to means
In 80% of school shootings, perpetrators got their weapons from family members, according to our data. Workplace shooters tended to use handguns they legally owned. Other public shooters were more likely to acquire them illegally.
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I always see the same incel righties in every shooting thread low key defending the shooter and his actions.

Pathetic.
 
panamaican said:
You're misunderstanding my point. They are the same problem in that it's either culture or it's external factors/mental health.

You do not have a cultural drug problem in one community and a mental health + external factors drug problem in another community.
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I'm not misunderstanding your point, as I largely agree with it. You just widely missed on the topic of the opioid epidemic vs drug epidemic in predominately minority areas. If you wanted to bring up meth use throughout the country, alcoholism on the res, or the prevalence of cocaine in largely bougie areas, then sure. These aren't pushed on, let alone prescribed to, people by medical professionals and given as medicine.

panamaican said:
Drug companies and doctors are pushing opioids? Street dealers are pushing cocaine. Different business models - same approach. Same motive by the dealers - profit. Same cause of problems - the product is addictive. Tell me what the difference is?
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Again, reductivism.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
Thanks.

@sloppypie, that article is a nice representation of the circumspect view.
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That article sums this issue up rather nicely, although I personally disagree with some of the proposed solutions (e.g. Severe restrictions on gun owner ship and curbing free speech).

Also, I didn't see adequate discussion of the unprecedented amounts of psychological pressure people experience these days. There are also historical, cultural, etc factors that deserve attention well-before any discussions about severely limiting the fundamental rights of the vast majority of citizens while the root causes are left untreated.
 
panamaican said:
I'm going to disagree with you here.

If the right wing said for 30 years "Crime is result of culture. Poverty is a result of culture." And they repeat that message over and over again then it's not dismissive or condescending to hold them to their language when the other shoe drops. Because highlighting the hypocrisy isn't what's poisoning the discussion.

What's poisoning the discussion is when they say "That is a problem of culture," and then the very next day they say "It's still a problem of culture...except for that guy over there. For him - it's mental health."

See, the issue I'm referring to is trying to hold both positions as true at the same time - not a problem of changing positions over time. Leftists didn't invent the culture argument. They've been arguing against it for decades. Now, you're seeing some of these right wing extremists saying it's still culture but creating artificial carve outs. You simply cannot blame that on the left wing for pointing it out.

Why? Because if the rational actor simply says "Yeah, you're right - it's mental health for that white nationalist and mental health for that rural community", the right wing extreme is still going to use "culture" for everyone else. It is not the fault of consistent people that inconsistent people keep pushing their bullshit.

And blaming that on the left essentially blames the left for not accepting the right wing extreme's duality of position.
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I am not blaming it on the left, I am just saying sometimes certain leftists don't deal with the hypocrisy effectively. The better way to do that would be to consciously remain consistent and give poor, drug riddled white communities the same benefit of the doubt and empathy that is given to poor communities of color. But I don't see that from some leftists who seem almost gleeful in pointing the finger at the wretched among whites.
 
So this dude is a left-wing nut who is passively being called a white nationalist terrorist entirely due to his skin color? That makes sense.
 
And once again, legal carrying does nothing to prevent his tragedy. We must stop guns
 
Stoic1 said:
You think it is concealed carry people that are responsible?

Holy shit. Next level stupidity.
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No, I'm saying gun regulations have been getting more lax with every year that passes
 
newerest said:
You're being quite obtuse here. You even are on his side by pointing out the extremely vast majority of guns are not registered today, making confiscation nearly impossible.
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There is a pretty big fucking difference between unregistered and illegal.
 
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