Darth Vader vs Yoda

[40's]

motivated yoda destroys vader

 

[44nutman]

Those wondering why Vader loses strength in the suit is because, he has to use his force abilities just to live. Imagine if Michael Jordan had 4 knee operations, he would still be good, proably average 25 points but not the GOAT.

 

[The Batman]

The key word is potential. There was no prime Vader.

Had Anakin not lost his limbs, damaged his eyes, burned his lungs, and been half machine, he would have probably been the best. The fact of the matter is, the Anakin that fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar was the strongest Vader, and he got tooled.

Unlike Anakin, Yoda had a prime, and he was one of the best eva.

"Ever the best, I am. Next Lindland is."

 

[Fishmonger]

Yoda.









(I did a recital of Yoda's dialogue and used it for my voicemail back in the day.)

 

[Fat Abbot]

A Couple of points.

Dooku didn't necassarily retreat because of Yoda. Anakin and Obi were both at the scene as well although (temporarily) incapacitated, plus the other jedi were on their way. Dooku would have been fucked if there were any more jedi besides yoda, since he and yoda were dead even.

2 The force was stronger in Vader at the end of RotJ than it was in any other character, including sideous. Sideous always had greater vision of the force than Ankakin or anyone else in the series. Even when luke initially came onto the scene, it was palps who knew luke was infact vaders son and he told vader of that. This was not the case at Endor, Vader sensed his son there while sideous did not. And it obviously was not because luke was vaders son, because had that been the case vader would have sensed who he was in the 1st place instead of ppalps. This is key, because it's the 1st time in the movies where vaders sense of the force is stronger than palps.

3 This moves on my next point. Vader killed Sideous not because Palps was distracted. He killed him because he had a stronger connection to the force at that time. Just as Palps kiled his old master in his sleep. Vader pdidn't kill palps because he was distracted just as palps didnt kill plaguous because he was sleeping. The apprentice becomes the master when the master cannot sense the apprentices betrayal. The only reason either of them were able to pull it off was because their then masters could not see it coming. If Sideous were stronger in the force at that time he would have been able to foresee vader betraying him, but he didn't and Vader killed him. Vader killed the 2 baddest sith lords of his time, the 2nd after getting battered by his son.

Palps did not say if Anakin doesnt get injured he'll become stronger than us both. He said he would, period. And in the end he was the strongest in the force.

And yeah Anakin lost to Obi, but he won the rematch easily. And shit can hit the fan in a fight, that's why sideous needed anakins help to save him from getting killed by windu or why sideous intially tried to flee from facing yoda. I'll also point out that Obi was the worst possible fight for him at the time due to him being his mentor, he knew all his weaknesses better than anyone.

As far as being one of the best ever. Noone in the star wars movies had the level of feats anakin did. He killed the 2 most powerful sith lords in the galaxy. Vader, not Luke or Yoda was the true hero of the story. Yoda was tough no doubt, but when it came down to it he couldn't get it done...against either of the Sith lords he faced.

As far as pre suit Vader vs suit Vader, they're different. pre suit he was better with a lightaber, but suit vader became much stronger in the force and had more patience and wisdom.

 

[Fat Abbot]

Those wondering why Vader loses strength in the suit is because, he has to use his force abilities just to live. Imagine if Michael Jordan had 4 knee operations, he would still be good, proably average 25 points but not the GOAT.

Meh, Vader was so strong in the force, if he werent so fucked mentally after losing padme he could have figured out how to just heal himself.

Losing Padme is what hurt him more than anything.

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

The key word is potential. There was no prime Vader.

Had Anakin not lost his limbs, damaged his eyes, burned his lungs, and been half machine, he would have probably been the best. The fact of the matter is, the Anakin that fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar was the strongest Vader, and he got tooled.

Unlike Anakin, Yoda had a prime, and he was one of the best eva.

I don't remember his eyes being damaged. My understanding is that the black suit has a built in respirator and it has to be closed kind of like a firefighter who uses an oxygen tank for air. The helmet gives him a digital image of his surroundings like Iron Man's suit. His eyes are fine. He requested to see Luke with his "own eyes" vs. the screen in his helmet.

Vader's defeat at the hands of Obi-Wan was due in my opinion to being careless during the fight. The whole fight they were depicted as being evenly matched and then Anakin, blinded by arrogance, decided to do a risky maneuver which Obi-Wan warned him not to even try which ended in an epic fail. I think if Yoda had fought Vader instead he would have been defeated decisively because Yoda was more powerful and more experienced. He also would have been beaten in the suit because Yoda would have used his agility against him.

But had Anakin not been stupid and turned to the darkside in 5 or so years he would have put Yoda, Windu, Obi-Wan and all of the other Jedi to shame because he's the chosen one and destined to be the Jedi GOAT. In the next trilogy they should depict Luke Skywalker as being a badass old man with Force Unleashed caliber abilities because he has the same potential as Anakin and he actually lived to realize that potential. Let's not underestimate Luke Skywalker. I know Vader made him look like a bitch in the Empire Strikes Back and saved his ass from electrocution by the Emperor but he's the real hero. He destroyed the Death Star, helped his father redeem himself and stayed on the side of good his whole life.

The last time I saw Mark Hammill he was looking fat and decrepit. They need to get him a personal trainer and get him in to decent shape for his age so he can be like Count Dooku, an old man who's still spry enough to whoop young guy's asses. I think a good storyline for the next trilogy would be Luke passing on the torch to his sons and maybe one of the sons is overly ambitious and has a brush with the darkside leading to the good son battling his brother and getting him to return to the good side. They need to do something cool but whatever they do they need to give the Luke Skywalker character justice by showing that he did something interesting with his life after Battle of Endor.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

If Yoda had done his S & C with Marinovich he'd have been unstoppable and eaten Vader, the Emperor, and Dooku in one sitting.

 

[The Batman]

If Yoda had done his S & C with Marinovich he'd have been unstoppable and eaten Vader, the Emperor, and Dooku in one sitting.

What about Revan?

 

[Fat Abbot]

The talk about Darth Vader essentially being ruined by his injuries is spot on: They devestated his ability to function as a human being, and crippled his abilities as a force user as a consequence.

However, the rationale offered by some is not correct: It is highly unlikely that his "midichlorians" were effected by his injuries. Midichlorians are based on concentration, not on amount. The remaining parts of his body no doubt have the same CONCENTRATION of midichlorians, just fewer in his overall body. As he has less of a body, he is certainly still as "connected" to the Force.

The problem is simply this: Darth Vader is a walking dead man. His body is ruined. He suffered third degree (if not FOURTH degree burns!) over his entire torso, his lungs had to be entirely replaced by artificial respiration, he lost three limbs, and he was deeply scarred over his entire body.

He was more or less a nervous system connected to a few working bones and one or two functioning organs hooked up to a giant metal body suit with internal life support.

That Anakin Skywalker even survived was based on the fact that he was so strong in the Force and tapped into the Darkside so deeply.

Hell, let's even say this: Anakin Skywalker? Is a -eunuch-. His phallus was no doubt entirely melted. So, let's just say he'll need Star Wars TRT.

Due to the extent of his injuries, Vader is incapable of functioning to the level he would have otherwise been able to. As a healthy, capable human being, he would be the most powerful Jedi by raw power alone. However, he might not be the most SKILLED. In fact, it was quite obvious throughout that Vader wasnt' especially good at sword play, as shown by the fact he lost three of the six major duels of his life.

His record:

LOSS Dooku (AOTC).
WIN Dooku (ROTS).
LOSS Obi Wan (ROTS).
WON Obi Wan (ANH).
WON Luke Skywalker (ESB).
LOST Luke Skywalker (ROTJ).

It is also notable that he lost limbs in every loss he suffered.

Darth Vader's record is like...the Randy Couture of Star Wars. A legend despite his mediocre record.

No wait: The BJ Penn of Star Wars. He never reached his potential!

Yopu can use that reasoning against most of the characters:

Obi:
1-0 maul
0-2 Dooku
1-1 Anakin
3-3 record

Yoda:
Dooku Draw
loss palps
0-1-1 record

Luke
Vader win-loss
1-1 record

Vader had the most impressive feats. You have to look at who he beat, he killed 2 of the 3 most powerful ppl in the galaxy next to himself. And how he beat his opponents, of his opponents he straight up killed 3 of them, didn't take their hands or cripple, he killed them. Conversely, no one person ever killed him. When Vader did die it was from a combination of damage from 2 ppl his son and sideous.

And Vader wasn't the 1st cripple sith Lord, cripples made up some of the most powerful sith in history. Nihilous and Scion were every bit as fucked as he was infact nihilous didnt even hav a body the dark side of the force consumed it.

 

[Sexy]

Vader via better fashion sense.

 

[Fishmonger]

Yopu can use that reasoning against most of the characters:

Obi:
1-0 maul
0-2 Dooku
1-1 Anakin
3-3 record

Yoda:
Dooku Draw
loss palps
0-1-1 record

What constitutes a "win" and "loss" for your opinionated match results?

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

I havn't played far ebough yet, but apparently Revan got beat by the Sith Emperor in the Kotor mmo.

Well that's lame. Who's this Darth Bane fellow?

 

[Fat Abbot]

Well that's lame. Who's this Darth Bane fellow?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane

 

[SafyreSchool**]

What constitutes a "win" and "loss" for your opinionated match results?

Looks pretty straightforward to me.
Obviously it would be the person who got the upper hand, didn't run away or die that "wins."

What's you argument against his records?
Which one do you think should be different?

 

[Fishmonger]

There's all sorts of opinions on this that range from informed to uninformed...

 

[Fishmonger]

top jedi and sith

 

[Fishmonger]

Looks pretty straightforward to me.
Obviously it would be the person who got the upper hand, didn't run away or die that "wins."

What's you argument against his records?
Which one do you think should be different?

Well, Yoda versus Dooku and Yoda versus Palpatine don't make too much sense then, unless I'm forgetting something(s)? Dooku fled from Yoda in the midst of battle. According to what you stated as the reasons for wins/losses/draws, Dooku should have lost the match, no? Conversely, the energy exerted between Yoda and Palpatine caused each other to separate and be launched across the room in different directions. Consequently, Yoda slipped and fell while combating against Palpatine. Is that not a draw?

 

[SafyreSchool**]

Well, Yoda versus Dooku and Yoda versus Palpatine don't make too much sense then, unless I'm forgetting something(s)? Dooku fled from Yoda in the midst of battle. According to what you stated as the reasons for wins/losses/draws, Dooku should have lost the match, no? Conversely, the energy exerted between Yoda and Palpatine caused each other to separate and be launched across the room in different directions. Consequently, Yoda slipped and fell while combating against Palpatine. Is that not a draw?

I would say dooku ran away due to outside circumstances.
He needed to escape capture, but had he stayed, it was clear the battle could have gone either way, so a draw is fair.

As for yoda/palp, Yoda ran away, but while he also needed to catch a ride, at the time, it was an absolute necessity that he kill the emperor, which he knew and was part of an overall plan, and he failed to do so. Anywho, the slip was caused by an offensive attack from palp. Looking at the end result, yoda was huddled in torn clothes, while the emperor was laughing.

 

[Fishmonger]

I would say dooku ran away due to outside circumstances.
He needed to escape capture, but had he stayed, it was clear the battle could have gone either way, so a draw is fair.

As for yoda/palp, Yoda ran away, but while he also needed to catch a ride, at the time, it was an absolute necessity that he kill the emperor, which he knew and was part of an overall plan, and he failed to do so. Anywho, the slip was caused by an offensive attack from palp. Looking at the end result, yoda was huddled in torn clothes, while the emperor was laughing.

Indeed, Yoda failed to kill the emperor. So, it is legitimate to say that he "lost" the chance to kill him, which is losing the overall battle; however, the particular skirmish that ensues between them is a draw I think.


I'm not so sure about the "offensive attack" made him slip. It was the reverberation that caused Yoda to fall. His body is much smaller than Palpatine's. He was also standing on top of the hovering disk, while Palpatine was standing on the floor inside of it. The following video displays what occurred: