Media Dana White: "We're working it out" regarding Wonderboy pay issue

[Aurelian]

I have to wonder if WB wasn't making 250k and it was another fighter making like 12k/12k if he'd just give the 12k guy the money in this situation. Anyway though I feel like he did half his job, so give him half. His opponent showed up 4 lbs overweight. Though I think WB would have won easily and have no freaking clue why WB turned this down. He beats Pereira 18/20 times.

 

[Soggust]

I have to wonder if WB wasn't making 250k and it was another fighter making like 12k/12k if he'd just give the 12k guy the money in this situation. Anyway though I feel like he did half his job, so give him half. His opponent showed up 4 lbs overweight. Though I think WB would have won easily and have no freaking clue why WB turned this down. He beats Pereira 18/20 times.

So, I feel like this is a reasonable take, but then I get stuck thinking "what is half"?

Because assuming it's not a flat rate (maybe it is), then Wonderboy is already losing his win money and any potential bonuses.

So if he believes he's going to win in spectacular fashion (as he should), then he's already giving up > 50% of his money by taking the show money - right?

 

[chardog]

So, I feel like this is a reasonable take, but then I get stuck thinking "what is half"?

Because assuming it's not a flat rate (maybe it is), then Wonderboy is already losing his win money and any potential bonuses.

So if he believes he's going to win in spectacular fashion (as he should), then he's already giving up > 50% of his money by taking the show money - right?

to keep it simple, 125K

and the reason for this is because that should pay for his camp and some for himself, from my understanding, they pay a percentage for camp. Keep in mind, this needs to be agreed that he can fight again in 2-6 weeks, for another full payday, to ensure, there is no punitve treatment.

 

[Aurelian]

So, I feel like this is a reasonable take, but then I get stuck thinking "what is half"?

Because assuming it's not a flat rate (maybe it is), then Wonderboy is already losing his win money and any potential bonuses.

So if he believes he's going to win in spectacular fashion (as he should), then he's already giving up > 50% of his money by taking the show money - right?

I'm going off what Dana said so I'm assuming half would be 125k which I figure should be enough to at least cover what WB's expenses were. Every situation with every fighter is different and ir's a case by case basis type of thing. In this one 125k sounds good to me and UFC can definitely afford to pony up the money and it wouldn't make a huge impact on them at all. Still don't know why he turned the fight down. I know his brain probably wasn't operating at 100% with everything happening so quickly and he had been weight cutting and the weight miss was 4 lbs but I think he just turned down a guaranteed win, imo of course. If Pereira is capable of losing to LW's and WB is capable of beating the shit out of Holland on the feet Michel isn't really a big deal.

 

[Soggust]

to keep it simple, 125K

and the reason for this is because that should pay for his camp and some for himself, from my understanding, they pay a percentage for camp. Keep in mind, this needs to be agreed that he can fight again in 2-6 weeks, for another full payday, to ensure, there is no punitve treatment.

I'm cool with this, I'd just like a more transparent process in the future than "backstage bonus depending on pay/media scrutiny/fighter" lol.

 

[Soggust]

I'm going off what Dana said so I'm assuming half would be 125k which I figure should be enough to at least cover what WB's expenses were. Every situation with every fighter is different and ir's a case by case basis type of thing. In this one 125k sounds good to me and UFC can definitely afford to pony up the money and it wouldn't make a huge impact on them at all. Still don't know why he turned the fight down. I know his brain probably wasn't operating at 100% with everything happening so quickly and he had been weight cutting and the weight miss was 4 lbs but I think he just turned down a guaranteed win, imo of course. If Pereira is capable of losing to LW's and WB is capable of beating the shit out of Holland on the feet Michel isn't really a big deal.

Yeah, I don't think the money is the problem because it was already budgeted when they calculated the PPV payroll.

It's just a situation where neither side really wants to accept a bad precedent for themselves.

All so that we can avoid addressing weight cutting.

 

[wolfss]

You gotta show up and work to get paid.

 

[VenomCarnage]

They’ll do enough.

Either partial to ‘full’ payment, or… some sort of ‘opportunity’ like beat Shav and you get a TS.

Fair play to MMA media for once. You actually managed to bully them about, to a sponsored Drank.

 

[YungSithLxrd]

Wonderboy also brings alot of "clicks and attention"if you wanna go that route.


Along with actually being a fucking fighter.

I don't like the Nelk boys or support them but tbf Dana likely paid that 250k put if his own

So instead of addressing weight cutting, the gameplan is to set a precedent where a fighter can commit 3 months of time and expenses just to be bullied into having to take different fight with different stipulation on a days notice?

They aren't bullying him at all. Dana even said they are willing to reimburse fighters for camps and expenses in preparation. He's being paid extra if chooses to fight that opponent if he's not then they are willing to replace the opponen to someone who can make weight. And if thats not enough they'll try to find an immediate turn around. Wonderboy wanted to back out to rank squat again bc he think he's a win or 2 from the title and that's not the case. This wasn't even a title eliminator its just a filler fight for fun. He could have fought with extra pay or fought someone else for full pay

 

[Soggust]

They aren't bullying him at all. Dana even said they are willing to reimburse fighters for camps and expenses in preparation.

So Wonderboy doesn't get reimbursed for 3 months of training and not being able to take a fight elsewhere as an independent contractor? If he quit his coaching job to train for the fight, is he reimbursed for expenses lost? Like, "camp expenses" is really vague here and certainly not enough on the surface, but lets give UFC the benefit of the doubt that they paid camp + some extra.

If we can agree he should ethically be reimbursed for camp + time + media obligations.....doesn't that essentially come to show money? Everyone talks about show money like it's the whole purse, but remember - by accepting show money he's taking < 50% of his pay (because he's assuming he wins + any bonuses).

So if he's already taking less than half his potential earnings, and we also agree he is due some money....aren't we kind of splitting hairs over show money vs "backroom bonus"? Especially when all of this money has been budgeted for the PPV, they made money of his name/likeness to sell tickets, and they are already saving money on his win money + Michel's money?

He's being paid extra if chooses to fight that opponent if he's not then they are willing to replace the opponen to someone who can make weight. And if thats not enough they'll try to find an immediate turn around.

Fighting at a different weight, different opponent or different time are all completely reworking the contract that was voided.

Wonderboy wanted to back out to rank squat again bc he think he's a win or 2 from the title and that's not the case. This wasn't even a title eliminator its just a filler fight for fun. He could have fought with extra pay or fought someone else for full pay

This might be true, but if you don't want it to happen - provide him an opponent who makes weight.

-------------
But really - I think this is a contract issue for fighters. They need to negotiate something concrete into their contracts, because as much as I ethically disagree - until the UFC is required to pay them, they are a business and I understand they have no reason to other than PR.

 

[spinitch]

For those thinking WB who has a high fight base pay should get paid 100% for not fighting, try to recollect how often this occurs and how many fighters have been pinched by UFC on this term. It is infrequent, and the UFC has a contract for this situation since it would be foolish for them not too. Now there could be a compromise as Dana mentioned where a nominal fee paid to cover costs etc as a clause which could reduce the angst. UFC seems to hold most leverage which is lopsided. Time will tell. Need to wait and see. WB unlikely to get 100% . A good new fight and partial pay perhaps. Give him a cushy announcer gig for a Few events to tide him over or something.

 

[YungSithLxrd]

So Wonderboy doesn't get reimbursed for 3 months of training and not being able to take a fight elsewhere as an independent contractor? If he quit his coaching job to train for the fight, is he reimbursed for expenses lost? Like, "camp expenses" is really vague here and certainly not enough on the surface, but lets give UFC the benefit of the doubt that they paid camp + some extra.

If we can agree he should ethically be reimbursed for camp + time + media obligations.....doesn't that essentially come to show money? Everyone talks about show money like it's the whole purse, but remember - by accepting show money he's taking < 50% of his pay (because he's assuming he wins + any bonuses).

So if he's already taking less than half his potential earnings, and we also agree he is due some money....aren't we kind of splitting hairs over show money vs "backroom bonus"? Especially when all of this money has been budgeted for the PPV, they made money of his name/likeness to sell tickets, and they are already saving money on his win money + Michel's money?


Fighting at a different weight, different opponent or different time are all completely reworking the contract that was voided.



This might be true, but if you don't want it to happen - provide him an opponent who makes weight.

-------------
But really - I think this is a contract issue for fighters. They need to negotiate something concrete into their contracts, because as much as I ethically disagree - until the UFC is required to pay them, they are a business and I understand they have no reason to other than PR.

He is literally being reimbursed fir camps dana already said so. And they always try to find a replacement who can make the weight. How often do we see catch weights? Almost never bc the UFC has publicly stated in the past they don't like catch weights. It's being over blown immensely bc it's WB but WB more than was offered another fight at 170 or a nearby date at 170 and refused. He's tryna squat for TS bc he's old. He wouldn't take a different fight but has now accepted Usman call out. He's not losing money he's breaking even after reimbursement

 

[bjjwar]

Imagine if you have an exact and precise CONTRACT, and the person in charge, WHO IS NOT YOUR BOSS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SAID IN COURT THEY ARE NOT YOUR EMPLOYER AND THAT YOU ARE AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR tries to change it without your consent, and then argues they don't owe you when you upheld your side of the CONTRACT.

Much better analogy than yours.

If i refuse a job that my boss asks me to do, not only won't i get any money, but i'd be fired...

Imagine in this contract it's written you get money if you fight, but you chose not to fight? Isn't it clear, that if you refuse to do what's in the contract even tho the circumstances changed and a new one gets offered to you, you don't deserve that money? You didn't do the job, so why should you get money for refusing to do your job and lay on the couch instead? Makes no sense.

And lets be honest, dude stopped sweating and was 2 lbs over the limit. 2 LBS ffs. If he came in 10 lbs heavier hydrated, fine, but it was not the case.

Bottom line is, he got offered the fight and refused. It's his choice. He can chose to accept and get the money or refuse and not get the money. I don't see in what world you refuse a job and get the money for doing nothing lol.

 

[Fadetoblack918]

"Wonderboy was never my friend"

-Dana White

 

[rjmbrd]

If i refuse a job that my boss asks me to do, not only won't i get any money, but i'd be fired...

The UFC has gone to great lengths (arguably illegally so, its still being debated) to classify fighters as contractors, not employees. So you cannot really say "boss" because contractors don't have a boss when hired to do a job, they have clients/customers.

In any event, fighting is one part of a lot of work responsibilities Wonderboy and others have to perform to get paid:

1) have 2 month fight camp preparing
2) sit for hours of taped interviews in your gym
3) allow hours of filming in your personal life
4) fly to another state/country for an entire week
5) sit for hours of media interviews on multiple days
6) diet and cut weight for several days
7) sign posters, sit for medicals, sit for further UFC photos/videos
8) make weight <<< YOU ARE HERE
9) fight

The UFC used Wonderboy's name and likeness to sell tickets and PPV sales in advance. They literally traded on his name. He was required to spend hundreds of hours of work getting to step #8.

He did a ton of work and is getting ripped off, because the UFC has all the leverage and lopsided, potentially illegal contracts.

 

[Kindjal]

First of all WB has no boss , he is an independent operator . WB signed a contract after both sides agreed to terms , the terms were later altered and the contract was thus broken . End of story

 

[Soggust]

First of all WB has no boss , he is an independent operator . WB signed a contract after both sides agreed to terms , the terms were later altered and the contract was thus broken . End of story

Not calling you out to shame you because I've been arguing this exact same point, but to be honest - I think I'm wrong.

I now think the reality is that the UFC contracts are written so shadily that the contract the fighter is signing up for DOESN'T have a defined date, opponent or location. Therefore, there was no even theoretical breach on the UFC's end.

We can argue ethics, but UFC pretty solid legally here I think.

Look at this bout agreement from 2018 and see how it's worded. Now maybe the verbiage has changed in the last 5 years, but I'll be happy to change my opinion again if I'm wrong ->

Spoiler: bout agreement

 

[tastaylvr]

People need to realise that wonderboy makes most of his money outside of the ufc. That money is made due to his ufc fame. Wonderboy gets paid due to his ufc notoriety so losing fights to worse fighters in the casuals eyes will lead to him getting paid less outside of the ufc.

He doesn’t give a shit about fighting anymore and just uses the ufc to market his other ventures so he will obviously dodge fights when it becomes possible.

 

[Do better]

Of course he will get paid, how much is the question

 

[bjjwar]

The UFC has gone to great lengths (arguably illegally so, its still being debated) to classify fighters as contractors, not employees. So you cannot really say "boss" because contractors don't have a boss when hired to do a job, they have clients/customers.

In any event, fighting is one part of a lot of work responsibilities Wonderboy and others have to perform to get paid:

1) have 2 month fight camp preparing
2) sit for hours of taped interviews in your gym
3) allow hours of filming in your personal life
4) fly to another state/country for an entire week
5) sit for hours of media interviews on multiple days
6) diet and cut weight for several days
7) sign posters, sit for medicals, sit for further UFC photos/videos
8) make weight <<< YOU ARE HERE
9) fight

The UFC used Wonderboy's name and likeness to sell tickets and PPV sales in advance. They literally traded on his name. He was required to spend hundreds of hours of work getting to step #8.

He did a ton of work and is getting ripped off, because the UFC has all the leverage and lopsided, potentially illegal contracts.

Lol at this <45>
You don't get 200k for signing 10 posters and doing 5 interviews. Wouldn't that be the easiest job in the world lol.

The show money is on your number 9, which he refused to do. You have a contract where you receive X amount of money to fight, not to sign posters (+X if you win, etc), this is included and part of the job. Wonderboy refused to do it. The training part is up to you, you can fight at a higher weight class if you don't want to cut or not train at all like 80% of HW's do. It's totally up to you how you want to organize yourself and NOT in the contract you signed!
You have a contract where you receive X amount of money to fight, Wonderboy refused, so why should he receive money for not doing what was in the contract?

But i'm sure he'll reveive some sort of compensation. But his show money, he didn't fight, so i don't think he'll get or deserves 200k for actually NOT showing up. Pereira wanted to fight, as did others and Wonderboy was the one who said no...