Media Dana shuts down Francis ever returning

[MrCoffee]

Dana is great at his job. Cry on.

 

[Strychnine]

Yeah but they aren’t lol, it’s only Francis

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

They’ve tried to change their behaviour so they don’t lose the antitrust suit but Dana just can’t help himself. Francis had the audacity to turn down their offer and then when Dana wanted him to lose so he could cut him, Francis had the audacity to win. That type of shit Dana can’t tolerate. Now it’s personal.

It’s definitely personal but it also has a business motive — to deter other fighters from pushing the envelope.

 

[Bingo Crosby]

 

[joeson]

Why would not having the best HW on the world in your roster hurt your argument that you aren’t a monopoly?

I thought Dana said that Jon Jones was the best heavyweight in the world?

Isn’t everyone saying Francis made the biggest mistake of his life? Why is that? Because there aren’t any competitive options.

 

[nostradumbass]

So if you ever turn down their offer and choose to test free agency then you are banned forever. And they claim they are not/ trying to put a stranglehold on the sport by being a monopoly?

Yeah, if you're a champ and fight once in 2 years then leave because you they didn't let their champ go get KO'd in another sport for a paycheck, so you think you can just leave and then they'll offer you the contract again, you would be wrong.

 

[joeson]

It’s definitely personal but it also has a business motive — to deter other fighters from pushing the envelope.

And leaving to go to the competition? Sounds pretty anticompetitive

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I thought Dana said that Jon Jones was the best heavyweight in the world?

Isn’t everyone saying Francis made the biggest mistake of his life? Why is that? Because there aren’t any competitive options.

Dana is (obviously) a promoter with zero regard for the truth. Who cares what Dana says.

People think Francis (at his age especially) should have taken what is widely believed to be a very good offer and quite possibly a better offer than he could get elsewhere. The existence of a best offer isn’t evidence of an anticompetitive market. There will always be a best offer out there for all of us, that doesn’t mean that the maker of that best offer has a monopoly.

Also, monopolies are about the customers, not employees, contractors, service providers, vendors, etc. Lots of people put on MMA shows. The UFC is the most popular, but it’s not like they slashed prices to drive the opposition out of business or colluded to fix prices.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

I’m not trying to be a smartass but I don’t really know what “fair” means when people say this. They punch people in the face for a nice living.

Wow I just noticed I put “indecent contractor” lol

But it’s the same shit the WWE does and it’s completely unfair compared to any other business. They consider everyone who works for them independent contractors, but don’t let them work anywhere else and control them as if they are employees. They have all of the negatives of being an employee, but none of the positives. It flies under the radar because it’s fighting and wrestling and a lot of people have the same mentality you have. If it was any other business or any other sport it wouldn’t be allowed to go on like that.

I don’t get your argument, is it impossible for the fighters to be treated unfairly because they punch people in the face?

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

And leaving to go to the competition? Sounds pretty anticompetitive

It might if you don’t know anything about antitrust law. (Sorry, don’t mean to be coming across as dickish. I just think there is a lot of talking past one another on this site about what monopolies are)

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

The whole issue IS about the money though. He wanted to be able to box because you make a lot of money in boxing. He wanted healthcare because healthcare costs money. If the UFC would have offered him $30,000,000 he would have signed.

If all he wanted to do was box, he’s free to box right now. Why isn’t he doing it? Because he wants lots of money to do it.

And all this is fine, you’re allowed to try to maximize your earnings. But pretending this is about something else is silly to me.

I don’t think you understand the situation, listen to the interview, he said the UFC offered him a shit ton of money.

This is what I mean when I say people can’t comprehend, or don’t believe it isn’t about money… it legitimately is about pride and him feeling like the UFC is shitty and unfair in general.

I get what you’re saying, in a way it all comes down to money, but the point is even if they offered him a contract that covered whatever he would get through healthcare or being able to box, he still wouldn’t take it. You can choose to not believe that, but all signs point to that legitimately being the case.

 

[LouisBolanos]

This is one of those rare cases where Dana is actually speaking the truth.

What Francis is asking for (fighter representation, freedom to box) are against the UFC's very bottom line, things the UFC would never budge on in a million years. Money can be negotiated, the UFC's bottom line cannot. Even if Dana himself allows it, Ari and the board of directors would still veto it. If Francis is to return, he'll have to make concessions, not the UFC. In other words, it's Francis not Dana you should be concerned with. If you believe Francis was telling the truth about his demands, then he'll never fight in the UFC.

 

[CC27]

Dana's right in that he made his decision. They tried, it didnt work, he moved on, UFC moved on and thats it. Francis aint gonna come crawling back and UFC doesnt care at this point.

Francis will sign with PFL and he'll box. He'll probably get a nice payday, maybe not as much as UFC offered for mma in PFL but with boxing and his freedom he'll say he got a deal he was happy with.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Wow I just noticed I put “indecent contractor” lol

But it’s the same shit the WWE does and it’s completely unfair compared to any other business. They consider everyone who works for them independent contractors, but don’t let them work anywhere else and control them as if they are employees. They have all of the negatives of being an employee, but none of the positives. It flies under the radar because it’s fighting and wrestling and a lot of people have the same mentality you have. If it was any other business or any other sport it wouldn’t be allowed to go on like that.

I don’t get your argument, is it impossible for the fighters to be treated unfairly because they punch people in the face?

The contractor vs employee thing is obviously a big legal issue that will continue to be litigated by all the big companies that are classifying their people are contractors.

We’ll see where it lands in the coming years, I’m honestly not sure what to expect.

There is nothing legally (or in my opinion, ethically) wrong about saying “you are a contractor but you can’t provide similar services to anyone else.” The contractor has the right to say no, and if enough refused the employers would have to reconsider their offers. But there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

And there are good arguments in both directions. For example, one of the things a court will look at is flexibility with respect to when and where you do the work. Other than what, maybe a dozen days a year, these guys can do whatever they want day to day. Some of them won’t do a single thing for the UFC for over a year (Font, Francis, Khamzat, etc.) Half of them have podcasts these days. Some of them coach or own gyms. Krause was doing whatever the hell Krause was doing. The UFC does not monopolize their time and space. They simply say, “I want to pay you to perform a couple times a year, and in exchange for me paying you for that I don’t want you to do the exact same thing for my competitors.”

My point about punching people in the face wasn’t to denigrate what they do. I’m just saying, “what is the intrinsic value to society of punching people in the face?” Without the infrastructure that the promoters provide, it’s an antisocial activity that gets you thrown in jail. The UFC (and other promoters) have turned it into a billion dollar enterprise, so people are willing to take the terms offered to them to participate. If there was no value added and it was just exploitation, nobody would do it. They’d go sell their skills to someone else. But they have a hard time doing it because without a top notch promotion involved what they do has minimal value. So what’s a “fair” price for their services? I have no idea, and that’s my point — “fair” is completely subjective.

 

[Doughie99]

I'm actually glad Dana confirmed this as it simply removes any ambiguity.
There's plenty of fighters who want IN to the UFC and happy with their deal ....so no need fo rUFC to spend an inordinatre amount of time and effort trying to get a new contract done for N'gone-now.

let's all just move on past the N'gone-now era.......
There's plenty of exciting heavyweights and I'm sure Dana and the Sean and Mick are always looking at adding more promising heavyweights.

 

[HHJ]

They will def take him back if its good for business. But they are waiting for him to fail so they can sign him for less

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don’t think you understand the situation, listen to the interview, he said the UFC offered him a shit ton of money.

This is what I mean when I say people can’t comprehend, or don’t believe it isn’t about money… it legitimately is about pride and him feeling like the UFC is shitty and unfair in general.

I get what you’re saying, in a way it all comes down to money, but the point is even if they offered him a contract that covered whatever he would get through healthcare or being able to box, he still wouldn’t take it. You can choose to not believe that, but all signs point to that legitimately being the case.

You’re right — I don’t believe it’s not about the money.

Of course many people *say* things aren’t about the money because they think it would make them sound crass or greedy to say otherwise. And I’m sure you’re right that pride is involved on both sides.

I’m just saying that my personal belief on this subject is that if Francis had been offered Tyson Fury money by the UFC he’d have been smiling at the press conference ten minutes later.

 

[Strychnine]

This is one of those rare cases where Dana is actually speaking the truth.

What Francis is asking for (fighter representation, freedom to box) are against the UFC's very bottom line, things the UFC would never budge on in a million years. Money can be negotiated, the UFC's bottom line cannot. Even if Dana himself allows it, Ari and the board of directors would still veto it. If Francis is to return, he'll have to make concessions, not the UFC. In other words, it's Francis not Dana you should be concerned with. If you believe Francis was telling the truth about his demands, then he'll never fight in the UFC.

When it comes down to money, I'll believe that Dana and Co. will follow that anywhere it leads. Even if it means they'll hang a banner over the Octagon that reads.

"Welcome Back Francis!"

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

They will def take him back if it’s good for business. But they are waiting for him to fail so they can sign him for less

Yea unfortunately I think you’re right. At this point Dana would love to see him sit out for a year and a half and have to come back hat in hand. That would literally make Dana’s dick hard. You’d like to think they could reach a deal and both acknowledge that they found a compromise, but Dana is a natural born asshole and he’ll love the idea of putting the other fighters on notice of what happens when you try to get above your station.

 

[TGArthur]

"The UFC Is not for sale"