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Most say Sugar Ray Robinson was the best fighter to ever live.
Dana says Jones greater than Ali, Tyson.
- Thread starter joy2day
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This is the difference between Muay Thai and kickboxing as jones is detailing his Muay Thai. How do you know he is doing Muay Thai, for one his stance.
With the chin tucked in, the body is kept upright and hands in guard position to protect the head, and feet are kept roughly shoulder-width apart. They do not stand sideways like kickboxers.
Kickboxers stand with their feet shoulder width apart and with one foot stepped back so that the feet are right angles to each other.
Yes the difference between knees and elbows means you are usually doing Muay Thai compared to kickboxing.
Muay thai is different. Muay Thai is an 8 point striking system that uses kicks, punches, elbows, knees, and clinching. Kickboxing is a 4 point striking system that involves punches and kicks only.
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Muay Thai did not invent knees and elbows.
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True but Muay Thai allows the use of both knees and elbows, while kickboxing typically does not, making the key difference that Muay Thai incorporates more striking options, including clinch work with knees and elbows, while kickboxing primarily focuses on punches and kicks.
Jones stance and his Muay Thai plum in the Hamill fight for instance, tells us he is Muay Thai.
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In terms of fighting ability and who win in their primes yeah of course. MMA fighters > Boxing.
In terms of cultural relevancy and icon status. The average person on the street has no idea who Jon Jones, but you can guarantee that most people on the planet know the names Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali and which sport they competed in. In 50 years time, those names will still be spoken of. No one will know or care about Jon Jones unless you’re a die hard or semi casual mma fan.
In terms of cultural relevancy and icon status. The average person on the street has no idea who Jon Jones, but you can guarantee that most people on the planet know the names Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali and which sport they competed in. In 50 years time, those names will still be spoken of. No one will know or care about Jon Jones unless you’re a die hard or semi casual mma fan.
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What does that even mean? In MMA they can just press people to the cage and stall on the ground. Most fights turn into a game of grab ass. How is that more dangerous than boxing where they're forced to only strike for 12 rounds? The level of cardio to even go that many rounds is way more athletic than most MMA fights where guys gas in 1 round sometimes
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Being forced to strike also means being protected from being choking out, slammed, getting heel hooked, gnped. Also boxers clinch all the fuckin time even if the rules say they arent supposed to do so.
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You can't compare a boxer going into MMA to an MMA fighter going into boxing...this is basic stuff man. It's like saying wrestling is better than MMA because Askren got destroyed by Jordan Burroughs when they wrestled...or hey look this one dimensional wrestler like Joe Warren or something came in and dominated so many MMA fighters....it's because in MMA you can actually use your other combat sport skill.
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wouldnt 90% of MMA fighters beat Tyson, Ali. Are they to greater than them?
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Beat them at what? A 3-point shootout? A street fight? A boxing match? An MMA matchup?
In terms of who wins at what? The skills and fighting ability that Ali had in boxing or Karelin had in wrestling were IMO greater than Jones's skills. MMA doesn't have the kind of storied history that boxing has, so there are far fewer examples that Jones has to compete with in his sport than someone like Ali. You have to be better than 100 years of boxers to be at the top of that game.
Now if you mean by "fighting" an MMA match, then we would have to see how Karelin/Ali/Tyson would do after they cross trained, at which point there would be ZERO guarantees that Jon would be better in MMA.
On the other hand, we have outcomes that are quite certain if Jon went into boxing or wrestling and tried to beat any of those guys- he would lose.
That is basically an apples and oranges comparison to go back and say someone would beat someone else in MMA when the other person never trained MMA. It doesn't make a lot of logical sense. They could each fight in the sport of the other, and they would be 1-1; Jones still doesn't come out on top.
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Theres definitely a case to be made that its harder to stay undefeated (less cherry picking, more ways to lose, more variation in stylistic match ups, easier to get Hail Mary'd etc etc) but overall boxing is more difficult for sure. The talent pool is far bigger and boxers have refined their skillset to a level that MMA fighters cant, which means they make less mistakes and are harder to beat.
