Social Dan Severn & Don Frye: We Love Toxic Masculinity, America's Gotten Feminized

[Deorum]

Boys, Guys, Dudes, Fellers, Men, Johns, Lads, Human Males

@Deorum thoughts?

I still wish Chase didn't live in Florida.

You can never take enough manliness in.

 

[I am your real dad]

I still wish Chase didn't live in Florida.

At least you will admit it.

These other rascals are undercover.

 

[Plissken]

Russia still has real men says Danev Severnev & Donzat Fryev during interview with VladTV.

Uhh, Vlad TV has really nothing to do with Russia or Russians, it's primarily a hip hop music/lifestyle interview show. The guy was born in the Ukraine and moved to the U.S. at pre-school age. That'd be like saying Andrew Garfield has an American accent because he was born there even though he moved to England when he was a toddler or something and speaks with an actual English accent.

 

[tonni]

Russia has a lot of drunks, wife beaters and shitty drivers.

 

[Deorum]

I don't think homosexuality and "toxic masculinity" are mutually exclusive.

And hell no, they're usually toxic precisely because of it. I've found that closeted and/or self-loathing gay men are often very disturbed individuals; probably some of the most *needlessly* confrontational, dangerous and violent people in the world. They're often quite outwardly masculine and physically powerful dudes but that in itself is something great. It's their destructive demeanor and mindset that is toxic, and all of the exogeneous androgens they're on definitely don't help.

 

[CanadianKobold]

Uhh, Vlad TV has really nothing to do with Russia or Russians, it's primarily a hip hop music/lifestyle interview show. The guy was born in the Ukraine and moved to the U.S. at pre-school age. That'd be like saying Andrew Garfield has an American accent because he was born there even though he moved to England when he was a toddler or something and speaks with an actual English accent.

Correct. The joke was not constructed with logical coherence and you noticed.

 

[Ridgeback]

Those are some real men for sure. God damn the mid 90's feels like forever ago (much less the 80's where dudes like these were common).

 

[Deorum]

Uhh, Vlad TV has really nothing to do with Russia or Russians, it's primarily a hip hop music/lifestyle interview show.

This is one of the greatest "interviews" ever.



@superking

 

[PrinceOfPain]

And hell no, they're usually toxic precisely because of it. I've found that closeted and/or self-loathing gay men are often very disturbed individuals; probably some of the most *needlessly* confrontational, dangerous and violent people in the world. They're often quite outwardly masculine and physically powerful dudes but that in itself is something great. It's their destructive demeanor and mindset that is toxic, and all of the exogeneous androgens they're on definitely don't help.

Yeah, self-loathing and denial will do that.
I lived with a mate for a while who was a super slut. Like, he fucked almost anything with a pussy and treated them all pretty badly. I never really thought very much of it, until one day he came out to me and told me he was gay.
My response probably wasn't the best for such a serious moment, cos I burst out laughing and told him, "you covered it really well by fucking everyone's girlfriends."

But aside from that (which caused more than enough trouble on its own) he was one of those friends you look back at and think, "we were lucky to make it out alive." We fed off of each other's frustrations and post-adolescent agitations, got into all sorts of shit, got shot at a handful of times, and started confrontational drama with another group of friends in the general area that he then felt we had to form a pseudo-gang to defend ourselves against.
Before he eventually left to live in Vietnam, he'd even started his own b-grade version of fight club (he was obsessed with that movie) in the local park where a bunch of us would come through and take turns seriously kicking the shit out of each other - like goddamn bum fights or something. I took part once, but I honestly didn't know where he'd found half the participants, and I eventually drew the line at bleeding on and being bled on by strangers in Rhodes Park so we started drifting apart just before he left the country.

I would not have described him or myself as toxic at the time, but in hindsight...

One thing that did always confuse me though. He came out as gay, and started to more regularly express attraction for men, but he never stopped taking easy women to bed.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Uhh, Vlad TV has really nothing to do with Russia or Russians, it's primarily a hip hop music/lifestyle interview show. The guy was born in the Ukraine and moved to the U.S. at pre-school age. That'd be like saying Andrew Garfield has an American accent because he was born there even though he moved to England when he was a toddler or something and speaks with an actual English accent.

ummm, no it’s not like that at all

you drink and post

 

[moreorless87]

I have to say though your typical MAGA "masulinity under threat" type doesnt tend to remind me much of Don Frye, its spread so much on the net because its an inherantly rather geeky culture, people who think giving themselves a forum/social media name of a philosopher or ancient ruler will mark them out as intelligent.

Really I think these people are facing quite a modern problem in the disconnect between what culture tells them they should aim at and what they can actually have. We live in an age were extreme financial success is pushed as the measuring stick incredible hard yet also in an era were large parts of the population have less and less opportunity to have even modest sucess.

The kind of Marlboro Man image Don Frye has I don't associate that with lionising arrogant/petulant billionaires like Donald Trump.

 

[boxingskills]

Yeah, I wish it had gone down like that. Instead, I took my lumps & barely laid a glove on him. LOL.

But I was in great shape & I could put non-stop pressure on him. So, I earned every penny.

OK I admit I was wrong. What really happened is that Duran found out that you were hanging in there with Ray, who he pulled a No Más on. Then Duran ducked you in sparring.

 

[MilesAbove]

Shockingly the old white men don't like the idea of a caveman mentality going extinct because it is their primary asset.

I'm all for people enjoying consenting violence and conflict (from MMA to chess) but what these dumb old men seem to be missing is that masculinity is 100% fine. It is the toxic aspects of it that people want removed, and by virtue of the world itself they should be on board.

 

[Proud American]

Shockingly the old white men don't like the idea of a caveman mentality going extinct because it is their primary asset.

I'm all for people enjoying consenting violence and conflict (from MMA to chess) but what these dumb old men seem to be missing is that masculinity is 100% fine. It is the toxic aspects of it that people want removed, and by virtue of the world itself they should be on board.

God Damn old white men still stand up to pee. Friggin Neanderthals.

they can still be masculine, just sit down to pee.

 

[Deorum]

One day he came out to me and told me he was gay. My response probably wasn't the best for such a serious moment, cos I burst out laughing...

Yeah, self-loathing and denial will do that.
I lived with a mate for a while who was a super slut. Like, he fucked almost anything with a pussy and treated them all pretty badly. I never really thought very much of it, until one day he came out to me and told me he was gay.
My response probably wasn't the best for such a serious moment, cos I burst out laughing and told him, "you covered it really well by fucking everyone's girlfriends."

But aside from that (which caused more than enough trouble on its own) he was one of those friends you look back at and think, "we were lucky to make it out alive." We fed off of each other's frustrations and post-adolescent agitations, got into all sorts of shit, got shot at a handful of times, and started confrontational drama with another group of friends in the general area that he then felt we had to form a pseudo-gang to defend ourselves against.
Before he eventually left to live in Vietnam, he'd even started his own b-grade version of fight club (he was obsessed with that movie) in the local park where a bunch of us would come through and take turns seriously kicking the shit out of each other - like goddamn bum fights or something. I took part once, but I honestly didn't know where he'd found half the participants, and I eventually drew the line at bleeding on and being bled on by strangers in Rhodes Park so we started drifting apart just before he left the country.

I would not have described him or myself as toxic at the time, but in hindsight...

One thing that did always confuse me though. He came out as gay, and started to more regularly express attraction for men, but he never stopped taking easy women to bed.

I never "came out" to anybody directly aside from my-ex girl that I have my son with, partially due to assumptions about the fallout (pretty accurate). I literally just woke up one day and decided to stop living a fake ass life of conscious concealment and then let the chips fall however. My family and friends all gradually found out on their own or through word of mouth. I'm just glad I was never a hypocritical little shithead who acted outwardly homophobic. No (new) women since though, I'm not looking and there's still been plenty of opportunities in spite of that.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I have to ask because I still don't know, but what's the most appropriate response?
He expected me to punch him, move out, or both. But for my part, I gave less of a shit than I might have expected. I laughed 'cos it was so damned unexpected and yet so obvious when he told me, but we chatted a bit, connected some dots, and then... that was that, really. I didn't tell anyone cos I didn't know who he'd told, and it's not the sort of thing that comes up organically. But, in hindsight, I think that because it turned out not to be a big deal to me, I just assumed it wasn't a big deal at all.
There's probably not an umbrella answer to the question... and this is a major thread derail, but it's something I have found myself wondering about.

 

[Deorum]

“Backward” countries leading the way for us.

<45>Lots of “backward” countries showing us the way. Goes on to tell no one should shit on others.
Also France to the rest of the world:

It's an absolutely amazing list and makes me laugh out loud that the United States doesn't make an appearance until the 21st century -- so much freedom, so much liberty. What a fucking joke.

I have to ask because I still don't know, but what's the most appropriate response?
He expected me to punch him, move out, or both. But for my part, I gave less of a shit than I might have expected. I laughed 'cos it was so damned unexpected and yet so obvious when he told me, but we chatted a bit, connected some dots, and then... that was that, really. I didn't tell anyone cos I didn't know who he'd told, and it's not the sort of thing that comes up organically. But, in hindsight, I think that because it turned out not to be a big deal to me, I just assumed it wasn't a big deal at all.
There's probably not an umbrella answer to the question... and this is a major thread derail, but it's something I have found myself wondering about.

The fuck if I know mate, which is kind of hilarious since I invariably drop multiple paragraphs in response to virtually any question related to gay people, community and culture. I never did it myself in a conventional sense of, "Yo, I like cawk" to anyone. I just went and made tons of other homo friends, rebuilt my entire social circle and it's great. <45>

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

This is one of the greatest "interviews" ever.



@superking

Jesus! That was, er, something!

 

[ShinkanPo]

Yeah, self-loathing and denial will do that.
I lived with a mate for a while who was a super slut. Like, he fucked almost anything with a pussy and treated them all pretty badly. I never really thought very much of it, until one day he came out to me and told me he was gay.
My response probably wasn't the best for such a serious moment, cos I burst out laughing and told him, "you covered it really well by fucking everyone's girlfriends."

But aside from that (which caused more than enough trouble on its own) he was one of those friends you look back at and think, "we were lucky to make it out alive." We fed off of each other's frustrations and post-adolescent agitations, got into all sorts of shit, got shot at a handful of times, and started confrontational drama with another group of friends in the general area that he then felt we had to form a pseudo-gang to defend ourselves against.
Before he eventually left to live in Vietnam, he'd even started his own b-grade version of fight club (he was obsessed with that movie) in the local park where a bunch of us would come through and take turns seriously kicking the shit out of each other - like goddamn bum fights or something. I took part once, but I honestly didn't know where he'd found half the participants, and I eventually drew the line at bleeding on and being bled on by strangers in Rhodes Park so we started drifting apart just before he left the country.

I would not have described him or myself as toxic at the time, but in hindsight...

One thing that did always confuse me though. He came out as gay, and started to more regularly express attraction for men, but he never stopped taking easy women to bed.

So it seems when dudes refuse to fuck him he rages and tries to get into fight with them.

Well he wont get a lot of dates by being a super Dbag.

 

[Deorum]

Jesus! That was, er, something!

Is that toxic masculinity?