Dan John article: "Easier strength - 40 day workout"

[Telf]

I must also be really dumb, because I don't understand a word of that article.

EDIT: Like, how can he set out to lift super easy weights for 40 workouts and then on his 22nd workout do a PR for a double? That's not super easy!

Glad I'm not the only one...

It just seemed to me that the writer himself doesn't seem so very advanced. The PRs he described aren't so amazing (beyond the improvements he states)- so it seemed weird that he was describing his very complicated (but "easy!") routine that involved lifting "easy" weights (accept for when it didn't).

But as others have said, it's probably way too involved and time-demanding for my needs.

Does anyone here train regularly with one of these more Eastern Euro style routines? Or have in the past? I'd certainly be interested in hearing comparisons to the more Western style of training.

 

[dexbot]

I think it's easy to take the word "easy" in this article the wrong way....

It just seemed to me that the writer himself doesn't seem so very advanced. The PRs he described aren't so amazing

....and dude...it's Dan John.... DAN JOHN FFS! He's a freaking legend in the training department.

 

[KILL KILL]

Glad I'm not the only one...

It just seemed to me that the writer himself doesn't seem so very advanced. The PRs he described aren't so amazing (beyond the improvements he states)- so it seemed weird that he was describing his very complicated (but "easy!") routine that involved lifting "easy" weights (accept for when it didn't).

But as others have said, it's probably way too involved and time-demanding for my needs.

Does anyone here train regularly with one of these more Eastern Euro style routines? Or have in the past? I'd certainly be interested in hearing comparisons to the more Western style of training.

I'd be willing to bet the Sheiko programs are probably the most popular high volume programs around. maybe you should check them out.


Also, Dan John knows his shit is as advanced as they come.

 

[KILL KILL]

I was more commenting on the program name than anything and I think when he says "Easier" he's mainly commenting on how the program is so simple people overcomplicate it, I just can't stand programs that have that "schtick," in them... the workouts are so easy, or strength will come easier in this program.

I'm sure the volume and the weights would get to be strenuous, he does denote in the article that the workouts will seem easy as you're "not supposed to come close to struggling." The program may very well work and I can't speak for everyone else but I, personally, enjoy the struggle. It's what fuels a lot of lifter's, it's what sets us apart and exemplifies the fact that it takes balls and guts to get in there and kick ass every session. I don't want to go in and do 5 lifts and never strain or agonize to get the weight up.

Now that that pointless rant is out of the way, the program maybe awesome, difficult at some points and work 10x better than anything out there. But if someone comes to me and says here's a program where you won't even have to try that hard (volume of work aside) and you'll get stronger....thanks but I'll pass. He may not be doing this at all but that's kind of how I read it, I may be way off.

TL;DR- "Don't keep testing yourself. Save the big efforts for, well, never."- No thanks

I agree to an extent. I personally would never use this program. I would also like to not that 5/3/1 only has 1 set a workout that you actually push yourself. The idea of "if you aint straining, you aint training" isn't always true.

 

[Telf]

I think it's easy to take the word "easy" in this article the wrong way....



....and dude...it's Dan John.... DAN JOHN FFS! He's a freaking legend in the training department.

Fair enough - Clearly I misspoke there a tad. I don't know too much about the world of strength training and the individuals involved. I didn't think that doubling 315 on the incline was so amazing in the grand scheme of things (obviously it's an impressive lift) - and of course being the strongest guy in the world doesn't necessarily make you a good trainer (also Mr John could have performed that lift weighing a buck-oh-five for all I know).

Although this routine doesn't require as much "effort" as the ones that are usually discussed here - it still seems to require a whole lot of gym time. Is that why, even if these types of routines are possibly more effective, they are less popular on these forums? Because they are too time consuming to allow for BJJ, MT and all that good stuff. Whereas there's a lot more flexibility in the simplicity of Rippetoe, Starr, et al's routines?

 

[KnuckleSangwich]

I agree to an extent. I personally would never use this program. I would also like to not that 5/3/1 only has 1 set a workout that you actually push yourself. The idea of "if you aint straining, you aint training" isn't always true.

I agree with your last point, you don't always have to kill yourself to progress. However, a major principle of 5/3/1 is that you complete your main lifts and then hammer weaknesses through assistance work. I don't know how everyone else runs their 5/3/1 program but many times my second lifts are basically a second main lift for me (since I'm fairly new I have a lot of weaknesses to work and benefit from the extra heavy work). While the actual 5/3/1 main lifts might not be killer my assistance normally is pretty tough. I try to keep the secondary lift between 3-5 sets for 4-6 reps with the last two sets being TOUGH (Front Squats/Defecit Deads/Heavy GMs for example). Works for me maybe not everyone else.

The "save the big effort for never" still erks me.

 

[KILL KILL]

I agree with your last point, you don't always have to kill yourself to progress. However, a major principle of 5/3/1 is that you complete your main lifts and then hammer weaknesses through assistance work. I don't know how everyone else runs their 5/3/1 program but many times my second lifts are basically a second main lift for me (since I'm fairly new I have a lot of weaknesses to work and benefit from the extra heavy work). While the actual 5/3/1 main lifts might not be killer my assistance normally is pretty tough. I try to keep the secondary lift between 3-5 sets for 4-6 reps with the last two sets being TOUGH (Front Squats/Defecit Deads/Heavy GMs for example). Works for me maybe not everyone else.

The "save the big effort for never" still erks me.

a big thing about 5/3/1 is that you actually do not even NEED to do assistance work. you can do your main lifts and leave if you wish. But as far as what Wendler has said, the assistance work is supposed to be at a higher rep range.

 

[KnuckleSangwich]

a big thing about 5/3/1 is that you actually do not even NEED to do assistance work. you can do your main lifts and leave if you wish. But as far as what Wendler has said, the assistance work is supposed to be at a higher rep range.

The "I'm not doing shit" version of 5/3/1 includes only hitting your main lift and that's it. The "Boring but Big" combines the lift with hypertrophy work and the Triumvirate is 3 big lifts and that's all. There are many different ways to run it and it's very moldable to what you need. He says don't major in the minors for those who under rate the main lift and concentrate on assistance and this isn't what I'm talking about.

Doing 5x15 leg extensions, leg curl after squats doesn't work for me, 4x5 box squats, front squats, rack pulls etc. do, at least for the moment. I'm not saying anyone else has to run the program like this but this is what's working for me and it's how I enjoy running the program. As long as my main focus is the main 3 lifts (which it will be as long as I'm competing) and I'm progressing, I don't really see a problem with it.

 

[Ghost Ape]

Fair enough - Clearly I misspoke there a tad. I don't know too much about the world of strength training and the individuals involved. I didn't think that doubling 315 on the incline was so amazing in the grand scheme of things (obviously it's an impressive lift) - and of course being the strongest guy in the world doesn't necessarily make you a good trainer (also Mr John could have performed that lift weighing a buck-oh-five for all I know).

Although this routine doesn't require as much "effort" as the ones that are usually discussed here - it still seems to require a whole lot of gym time. Is that why, even if these types of routines are possibly more effective, they are less popular on these forums? Because they are too time consuming to allow for BJJ, MT and all that good stuff. Whereas there's a lot more flexibility in the simplicity of Rippetoe, Starr, et al's routines?

Dan John is in his mid 50's now, so a 3 plate incline bench and so on aren't too bad when most people his age can hardly get off a couch without assistance. He used to compete in track and field events (and coaches them now) like discus and shot put, but he also an active participant of the Highland Games and has done some small powerlifting and oly lifting competitions in the past as well. When he was younger, these were his bests:

Snatch: 314 lb
Dead lift: 628 lb
Clean and Jerk: 385 lb
Clean: 402 lb
Squat: ~600 lb

He's a pretty cool guy who seems to know about practically everything about athletic training. If you have some time to kill, Rippetoe interviewed him for his site here:
Starting Strength
Starting Strength

As far as the program goes, it's a lot more flexible than the Starting Strength program or even Bill Starr 5x5 as far as I can tell. It's a lot more short term though and really meant for intermediate or advanced lifters who want to try something different. You should have an idea of how to perform all the lifts and be comfortable with varying rep schemes and how to recover properly etc before moving on to programs such as this. He says it's based around perceived exertion and probably doesn't work too well if you are a beginner and every lift seems difficult.

 

[Telf]

Dan John is in his mid 50's now, so a 3 plate incline bench and so on aren't too bad when most people his age can hardly get off a couch without assistance. He used to compete in track and field events (and coaches them now) like discus and shot put, but he also an active participant of the Highland Games and has done some small powerlifting and oly lifting competitions in the past as well. When he was younger, these were his bests:

Snatch: 314 lb
Dead lift: 628 lb
Clean and Jerk: 385 lb
Clean: 402 lb
Squat: ~600 lb

He's a pretty cool guy who seems to know about practically everything about athletic training. If you have some time to kill, Rippetoe interviewed him for his site here:
Starting Strength
Starting Strength

As far as the program goes, it's a lot more flexible than the Starting Strength program or even Bill Starr 5x5 as far as I can tell. It's a lot more short term though and really meant for intermediate or advanced lifters who want to try something different. You should have an idea of how to perform all the lifts and be comfortable with varying rep schemes and how to recover properly etc before moving on to programs such as this. He says it's based around perceived exertion and probably doesn't work too well if you are a beginner and every lift seems difficult.

Thanks for the links, man.

I certainly didn't mean to diminish his lifts - it's just that you see so many insane feats of strength on these forums that it can skew one's perspective a bit, in regards to what "advanced" actually means. Lesson learned.