Cuban Boxing Fundamentals

[Sano]

Coe set that up beautifully.

Wow that was beautiful. He set him right up for that one. He looks really solid!

I agree with @AndyMaBobs that generally British, and Western European boxing, can be a bit ugly to watch and is a lot of upright, straight in and out aggressive boxing. However, what do you think about Josh Kelly and his training partner Ryan Burnett? They definitely stand out style wise. Seems like Adam Booth is doing something different with these guys.




In regards to Eastern block vs Cuban style it does feel like the Eastern style is more upright and focused on distance, steps and angles, where as the Cuban style uses hips more and is less rigid in its rhythms. They share a lot of the training modalities and small things, but I personally find the Cuban style more aestethically pleasing. Using range and angles is great, if you can use your hips well too then you just have another layer to your game, like the example you showed with Joseph getting away with disrupting the distance because of his hips, ie. not getting punished for it.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

@Sinister - both of those guys are really slick. I particularly like how he feints the side step.

In regards to Eastern block vs Cuban style it does feel like the Eastern style is more upright and focused on distance, steps and angles, where as the Cuban style uses hips more and is less rigid in its rhythms. They share a lot of the training modalities and small things, but I personally find the Cuban style more pleasing. Using range and angles is great, if you can use your hips well too then you just have another layer to your game, like your example with Joseph getting away his disrupting the distance because of his hips, ie. not getting punished for it.

Adam Booth was David Haye's coach back in the day too, he's a very good coach, although I must admit I still have yet to really be impressed by George Groves. I definitely think those guys have a nicer style, compared with the normal approach of 'smash them' - which most British boxers employ.

I'm gonna have to find more videos to compare footwork with for the Cubans and Eastern bloc, because I can see it, but I can't see it properly yet

 

[shincheckin]

lots of good info being shared here. I was just watching Josh Kelly the other day. notice he switches stances as well in his attacks etc. what he did at 35 seconds was bad ass, 2 setup taps, pivot, southpaw, big R hook.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Not available in my country, but if this is the video I think it is, then it's certainly worth looking at!

 

[Lucas Coradini]

Not available in my country, but if this is the video I think it is, then it's certainly worth looking at!

Strangely it is not available for me as well, but it is from the colombian school, right? From what I remember it is pretty much the soviet/cuban horizontal hook with the elbow raising at the end and the fist coming downward on the target.

It also shows a loading phase before the punch: internal rotation of the rear knee, folding of the lead hip, torso in a southpaw position

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Strangely it is not available for me as well, but it is from the colombian school, right? From what I remember it is pretty much the soviet/cuban horizontal hook with the elbow raising at the end and the fist coming downward on the target.

It also shows a loading phase before the punch: internal rotation of the rear knee, folding of the lead hip, torso in a southpaw position

That's how I remember it

 

[Sinister]

@Sinister - both of those guys are really slick. I particularly like how he feints the side step.



Adam Booth was David Haye's coach back in the day too, he's a very good coach, although I must admit I still have yet to really be impressed by George Groves. I definitely think those guys have a nicer style, compared with the normal approach of 'smash them' - which most British boxers employ.

I'm gonna have to find more videos to compare footwork with for the Cubans and Eastern bloc, because I can see it, but I can't see it properly yet

Groves impressed me by nearly killing Froch. Froch is one of the toughest people I've ever seen in the ring, and I ONLY say that after he got up and won when Groves had him pretty much dead on his feet after the knockdown.

lots of good info being shared here. I was just watching Josh Kelly the other day. notice he switches stances as well in his attacks etc. what he did at 35 seconds was bad ass, 2 setup taps, pivot, southpaw, big R hook.

That sounds very Ingle-oriented.

Much like the U.S. there's some wizards in the U.K. as well. They just get largely ignored for the status quo, rather than making THEM the status quo. There's a girl in Australia I worked with when she was here, Bianca Elmir, her teacher was and Englishman but he learned everything he does from Russians. So that's how she fights, she just turned Pro recently:



So when she was here with me, everything I did fit with everything she did like puzzle pieces. So if/when she comes to the U.S. to upgrade her Pro career, likely it'll be here with me. But I find it excellent that she had a good teacher there. A lot of people think I'm like the average American venture capitalist who thinks I have the market cornered or want to monopolize, but that's not the case. I care about the Sport itself a bit more than my own prosperity. So I always really like when I find out there's a like-minded trainer out there doing good work.

Speaking of which, this is a look at the environment I've been building within Tocco's. Includes boxing work and conditioning:



Notice that the little ones and big ones don't do much different workouts. A long time ago someone told me that about Europe at Top Rank. They had trained in a gym in Germany and they said regardless of weight or age everyone had to do the same workout. Hence, no laziness allowed.

 

[shincheckin]

Groves impressed me by nearly killing Froch. Froch is one of the toughest people I've ever seen in the ring, and I ONLY say that after he got up and won when Groves had him pretty much dead on his feet after the knockdown.



That sounds very Ingle-oriented.

Much like the U.S. there's some wizards in the U.K. as well. They just get largely ignored for the status quo, rather than making THEM the status quo. There's a girl in Australia I worked with when she was here, Bianca Elmir, her teacher was and Englishman but he learned everything he does from Russians. So that's how she fights, she just turned Pro recently:



So when she was here with me, everything I did fit with everything she did like puzzle pieces. So if/when she comes to the U.S. to upgrade her Pro career, likely it'll be here with me. But I find it excellent that she had a good teacher there. A lot of people think I'm like the average American venture capitalist who thinks I have the market cornered or want to monopolize, but that's not the case. I care about the Sport itself a bit more than my own prosperity. So I always really like when I find out there's a like-minded trainer out there doing good work.

Speaking of which, this is a look at the environment I've been building within Tocco's. Includes boxing work and conditioning:



Notice that the little ones and big ones don't do much different workouts. A long time ago someone told me that about Europe at Top Rank. They had trained in a gym in Germany and they said regardless of weight or age everyone had to do the same workout. Hence, no laziness allowed.

totally agree, you see this problem everywhere within boxing, mma, muay thai. Its all gone boxercise. If your a youngster that dreams of going pro etc, it can be hard to find a real gym that is capable of taking said youngster to that level. I started out in Boxing when I was very young before getting into Muay Thai and I had this same problem. My first boxing gym was LA boxing, total boxercise. I left there and went to westminster boxing club, there I was taught absolutely nothing and was left to wonder around the gym and hit the bags by myself, there was no class, no nothing, just open gym, with no coach. It was about the same as punching a bag by myself in the garage. I then left there and joined Williams Gym in Long Beach. Coach was the father of Jeremy Williams, I am going to guess you may have heard of him? This was my first real boxing gym, he made me spar the very first day. I got my boxing foundation there. The gym has since closed, Jackrabbit Boxing club has taken over the location. Jackrabbit seems to be a legit gym as well. It was pretty frustrating because there was alot of wasted time and years. Now when I look back on it, i realize that if you arent lucky enough to have a good local gym, you just might be SOL. Its no wonder that a good majority of the top level guys out there, have been taught by their father, uncle, etc. Mayweather is a good example of this. What has taken me basically a lifetime to learn in muay thai, I can teach to my son in a few years.

 

[Sinister]

totally agree, you see this problem everywhere within boxing, mma, muay thai. Its all gone boxercise. If your a youngster that dreams of going pro etc, it can be hard to find a real gym that is capable of taking said youngster to that level. I started out in Boxing when I was very young before getting into Muay Thai and I had this same problem. My first boxing gym was LA boxing, total boxercise. I left there and went to westminster boxing club, there I was taught absolutely nothing and was left to wonder around the gym and hit the bags by myself, there was no class, no nothing, just open gym, with no coach. It was about the same as punching a bag by myself in the garage. I then left there and joined Williams Gym in Long Beach. Coach was the father of Jeremy Williams, I am going to guess you may have heard of him? This was my first real boxing gym, he made me spar the very first day. I got my boxing foundation there. The gym has since closed, Jackrabbit Boxing club has taken over the location. Jackrabbit seems to be a legit gym as well. It was pretty frustrating because there was alot of wasted time and years. Now when I look back on it, i realize that if you arent lucky enough to have a good local gym, you just might be SOL. Its no wonder that a good majority of the top level guys out there, have been taught by their father, uncle, etc. Mayweather is a good example of this. What has taken me basically a lifetime to learn in muay thai, I can teach to my son in a few years.

I hear ya, that's not altogether different than what I went through. I've heard of Williams Gym, yes. And Jackrabbit, they've come out here for a few shows. It's rough though, but with the internet now either the information is out there or people know where it is. It's not very hard to find. When I was a kid there was just who was there, no youtube, no anything. I've met guys who claimed to be self-taught through youtube and they're not TERRIBLE. But the main thing from there is how dedicated people are. If you REALLY want to box and be successful, modern kids have to learn that having semi-knowledgeable guys who just gas up their heads might not be enough. You might actually need to go where the best information and best teaching is at some point.

 

[Sano]

Groves impressed me by nearly killing Froch. Froch is one of the toughest people I've ever seen in the ring, and I ONLY say that after he got up and won when Groves had him pretty much dead on his feet after the knockdown.



That sounds very Ingle-oriented.

Much like the U.S. there's some wizards in the U.K. as well. They just get largely ignored for the status quo, rather than making THEM the status quo. There's a girl in Australia I worked with when she was here, Bianca Elmir, her teacher was and Englishman but he learned everything he does from Russians. So that's how she fights, she just turned Pro recently:



So when she was here with me, everything I did fit with everything she did like puzzle pieces. So if/when she comes to the U.S. to upgrade her Pro career, likely it'll be here with me. But I find it excellent that she had a good teacher there. A lot of people think I'm like the average American venture capitalist who thinks I have the market cornered or want to monopolize, but that's not the case. I care about the Sport itself a bit more than my own prosperity. So I always really like when I find out there's a like-minded trainer out there doing good work.

Speaking of which, this is a look at the environment I've been building within Tocco's. Includes boxing work and conditioning:



Notice that the little ones and big ones don't do much different workouts. A long time ago someone told me that about Europe at Top Rank. They had trained in a gym in Germany and they said regardless of weight or age everyone had to do the same workout. Hence, no laziness allowed.

The principles behind the S&C exercises the kids are doing on the side are actually not bad. First one stepping over and pushing the plate straight out, that is working lateral force transmission, lateral stability (glut med activation especially) and horizontal flexion resembling punch trajectory. Second is a decent core activation exercise which is always good, but it also frees up an the extremeties by moving the dumbbell which means it's dynamic stabilisation of the core while the arm is moving. That'll have a greater carryover to punching. Last one doesn't quite do triple extension, but the continous hip and knee bend will help with slipping and ducking and with the added push press/snatch with the dumbbell they will work on transfering the power from the ground to the arm through the kinetic chain. Very relevant exercises, did you think these out for these specific purposes, or do you just like them?

WIth a few tweaks, like pro and regressions, timing, quality correction and so on they could be really good.

 

[Sinister]

My assistant and I are still building the conditioning regimens to be different in levels for advanced or beginners, and being very sport-specific in most cases. With some emphasis on them being able to do cool shit with bodyweight exercises. To build their confidence and sense of self-worth, which tends to translate into toughness.

 

[shincheckin]

I hear ya, that's not altogether different than what I went through. I've heard of Williams Gym, yes. And Jackrabbit, they've come out here for a few shows. It's rough though, but with the internet now either the information is out there or people know where it is. It's not very hard to find. When I was a kid there was just who was there, no youtube, no anything. I've met guys who claimed to be self-taught through youtube and they're not TERRIBLE. But the main thing from there is how dedicated people are. If you REALLY want to box and be successful, modern kids have to learn that having semi-knowledgeable guys who just gas up their heads might not be enough. You might actually need to go where the best information and best teaching is at some point.

Yes exactly man, im 35 so Im exactly the same in the aspect that there was no internet, youtube, etc. The only way to learn anything was directly from the source, or books with drawn pictures. I had the same problem with Muay Thai, more so actually than boxing because boxing is an american sport. Muay Thai was still extremely foreign, only being brought into the light indirectly through MMA and having a major growing in the past 10 years. You coudlnt just get on youtube and see a thai kick, or a video on how to kick, or even visit a thai gyms website if you wanted to train there. Back in the day you needed to have a connection in thailand, so you could call them directly to go train there. As muay thai began to grow. there were many coaches who claimed to be something they were not, or lied about their accomplishments etc. If the guy said he fought in thailand, there was no way to verify it, you had to take his word for it. People cant get away with that type of stuff now due to the internet. Im not going to name drop, but I know some MMA and MT coaches that are successful, and its all based off lies. But yeah because of the internet, and the fact the muay thai community is so small, everyone knows eachother know, and knows who the better coaches are in the US now.

"You might actually need to go where the best information and best teaching is at some point."

exactly right, if your lucky enough that this is your local gym and you can train there daily thats great. Otherwise youll have cross train, and visit these types of places when you can which is exactly what I have been trying to do.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

Another one

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Another one

Very nice. I do find they look more deliberate in their punches when shadowboxing than US/UK boxers. They seem to do the full motion rather than the half punches you see often see in shadowboxing

 

[theranch]

@Sinister - both of those guys are really slick. I particularly like how he feints the side step.



Adam Booth was David Haye's coach back in the day too, he's a very good coach, although I must admit I still have yet to really be impressed by George Groves. I definitely think those guys have a nicer style, compared with the normal approach of 'smash them' - which most British boxers employ.

I'm gonna have to find more videos to compare footwork with for the Cubans and Eastern bloc, because I can see it, but I can't see it properly yet

This thread is fantastic and I've thoroughly enjoyed it but i do think you're being a bit overly harsh on the UK school of Boxing especially in the amateurs. Young Peter mcgrail, Galal Yafai The Mcormack Twins (to a lesser extent) and even Aidan Walsh and Kurt Walker out of NI are really enjoyable to watch and utilize some really interesting Skills! But in the Pros i can see what you mean with the exception of Ingle and Booth trained fighters although the Edwards Brothers up in Sheffield have been doing well recently.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

This thread is fantastic and I've thoroughly enjoyed it but i do think you're being a bit overly harsh on the UK school of Boxing especially in the amateurs. Young Peter mcgrail, Galal Yafai The Mcormack Twins (to a lesser extent) and even Aidan Walsh and Kurt Walker out of NI are really enjoyable to watch and utilize some really interesting Skills! But in the Pros i can see what you mean with the exception of Ingle and Booth trained fighters although the Edwards Brothers up in Sheffield have been doing well recently.

Hey there - I can only speak to what I've seen and I find that the British tend to rely more on toughness and brawling - I'm sure there are plenty that would prove me wrong but my main issue is that there isn't really a UK school of boxing in the way there is a soviet or cuban

 

[theranch]

Hey there - I can only speak to what I've seen and I find that the British tend to rely more on toughness and brawling - I'm sure there are plenty that would prove me wrong but my main issue is that there isn't really a UK school of boxing in the way there is a soviet or cuban

Youre absolutley right about there not really being a set system so to speak but GB win Olympic medals in Boxing fairly regulary in the 21st Century beating out the Cubans and Eastern Europeans (obviously not as successful as the Ex Soviet bloc and Cubans) which simply would not happen if all they had was toughness and brawling, having been an amateur in the UK the majority of technique was focused on NOT getting drawn into a brawl although as you say this varies club to club but look at the GB squad i think you would enjoy watching the skill they show. But either way finding it really interesting to watch some of the stuff here as it seems to be learned almost in reverse order to Western Boxing so thanks for the great thread!

 

[Sinister]

The X-factor for the U.K. is that Europe as a whole is in the midst of a boxing Renaissance. It's popular, there's demand. Because of that there's going to be emphasis on trainers actually knowing what the fuck they're doing. The cream rises to the top.

Its not so in the U.S.

Meanwhile Canelo is altering Mexican boxing as well. He's one of the first guys who definitively fights like an American. I'm seeing more fighters out of Mexico with boxer/puncher styles.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

This thread is fantastic and I've thoroughly enjoyed it but i do think you're being a bit overly harsh on the UK school of Boxing especially in the amateurs. Young Peter mcgrail, Galal Yafai The Mcormack Twins (to a lesser extent) and even Aidan Walsh and Kurt Walker out of NI are really enjoyable to watch and utilize some really interesting Skills! But in the Pros i can see what you mean with the exception of Ingle and Booth trained fighters although the Edwards Brothers up in Sheffield have been doing well recently.

famous Brit boxers have displayed a wide variety of skills from fighter to fighter.

Calzaghe, David Haye, Hatton, Amir Khan, Tyson Fury all have different skills, and not just mindless swingers of haymakers. When you go back in time same thing. Hamed, Lewis etc, all different, but skilled in what they did.

 

[Sinister]

Hatton was pretty much a mauler, and Fury largely depended on his size and reach, he was like what Valuev could have been if he had an evil bone in his body. But you named 5 people in an area that spans 4 Countries. Those are exceptions. Watch any U.K. boxing broadcast that doesn't feature whichever are the couple of best fighters of the day and you'll see fairly standard stuff. Same like PBC here in the U.S., although I actually dig the U.K. shows better.