Criteria for GOAT

[Xoleth]

Chael P Sonnen fought 3 of them
Beat them all, also
True story

 

[Iron Nick]

I'd take the talentpool of a division into consideration as well.

I also think that DJ is the GOAT, or at the very least the second best of all time.

 

[Kwic]

Must have a big schlong.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I think theres other factors, like with Fedor he was a small guy for the division and would be at a significant size disadvantage at times. Then with Anderson you have to take into account that he was straight out of a comic book during his big UFC run which (imo anyway) gave him more of an aura than Jones or GSP.

 

[rear naked ankle pick]

Also normal height, 6'0 minimum

 

[pankrat]

To some people. A win is a win and other than Hendricks he won decisively. He even put an absolute beating on about half of them.

To some people a win is a win? Like doesn't matter if you finish your opponent in a Fight or not?
How stupid is that people?

Ben Henderson was a great LW but is not considered the GOAT LW. If he had fi ished all the opponents he took to flip coin decs, he would have a better case. But he didnt

Anyways for those who "a win is a win" there is no point in GOAT talks. It's a matter of checking in Wikipedia who has more W's in the record and that's it

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Sherdog's definitive GOAT criteria.

1) Have they ever pulled out of a fight?
2) Are they a manlet?
3) Have they ever popped for roids?
4) Have they ever tapped to strikes?

If the answer to any of those is yes, then they're not the GOAT.

 

[K-Town Punk]

I see where you’re coming from, but you’re oversimplifying a complex issue.
First of all we don’t know who’s clean and who’s not, we only who got caught. For example, we don’t know if Fedor and GSP were really clean, because they didn’t really compete under USADA.
Secondly it’s ridiculous to say anyone who competes in MMA is automatically better than Jones, just because they haven’t been caught cheating. Yet.

We don't know how many of Lance Armstrong's rivals used PEDs, only those that got caught. Or Olympic athletes. Doesn't matter, we have to apply the common groundset of innocent until proven guilty. Those who were unfortunate or just dumb enough to get caught can no longer be considered part of the conversation. Whether Fedor, GSP, Demetrious or any of the others deserve to be talked about as GOATs is a different question from clearly answering the question who doesn't deserve it. Cause any allegations about them using PEDs will forever remain speculation, with Jones and Silva we at least have hard facts that disqualify them.

And indeed, not every clean martial artist will be better than clean Jones or Silva, but Jones and Silva robbed themselves of the chance to prove how good they are clean by resorting to cheating. There's no coming back from that unless you go out there, get tested time and time again and build a new career from the ground up. Jones is basically doing that, but evidently in much less impressive fashion than his PED version did. So I don't feel bad undermining whatever potential they may have actually had at all, and I used to be a huge Silva fan back in the day myself.

 

[Franklin U.]

There is no goat in this sport ( yet) ....and rather subjective beyond the 4 names u mentioned. Jones came the closest to being " that guy" to compare all standards to. He f- ked up on a myriad of levels( pun) otherwise hed be hands down - " goat".

This is just my opinion.....and I know I'm in the minority but I don't understand why so many people think gsp should wear this title. Is he on goat list ? yes, of course.

I've been watching this stuff well before gsp came around. The best thing gsp has going for him is his IQ (cage) and the longevity of his title defenses. The who and the how ,imo, makes him well short of #1. Too many sheep on sherdog who happen to be gsp fans. I kind of get it - classy reserved guy( who looked like a young van damme), a winner who people can get behind and watch him double leg like nobodys business and ran the gamut of " decent " contenders.

Ah fuck- I have to attend to something , I'll finish if I remember-

 

[Kumason]

1. Be a member of Sherdog
2. Like a fighter


Goat discussion has to be the dumbest of all the nonstop waste of time discussions.

 

[pankrat]

We don't know how many of Lance Armstrong's rivals used PEDs, only those that got caught. Or Olympic athletes. Doesn't matter, we have to apply the common groundset of innocent until proven guilty. Those who were unfortunate or just dumb enough to get caught can no longer be considered part of the conversation. Whether Fedor, GSP, Demetrious or any of the others deserve to be talked about as GOATs is a different question from clearly answering the question who doesn't deserve it. Cause any allegations about them using PEDs will forever remain speculation, with Jones and Silva we at least have hard facts that disqualify them.

And indeed, not every clean martial artist will be better than clean Jones or Silva, but Jones and Silva robbed themselves of the chance to prove how good they are clean by resorting to cheating. There's no coming back from that unless you go out there, get tested time and time again and build a new career from the ground up. Jones is basically doing that, but evidently in much less impressive fashion than his PED version did. So I don't feel bad undermining whatever potential they may have actually had at all, and I used to be a huge Silva fan back in the day myself.

As far as I know Silva wasn't unfortunate or dumb enough to get caught during his time as a champion. So as you say, saying he was cheating while he was defending his belt - which is what place him in GOAT talks - will remain speculation.

Jones actually has the best win in his career overturned for cheating while he was a champ.

 

[Morris88]

Who has the most twitter followers
Who has the highest profile sponsorship deals
Who makes the most money off Onlyfans

This ain't a career you goofs

 

[Fioretti]

How in the dirty fuck is title DEFENSES not in your criteria? Why is career finishing rate 10th, and title defense finishing rate not on the list?

Anybody can make a list of criteria to suit their agenda, but goddamn, boy....

 

[GOATtalks]

How in the dirty fuck is title DEFENSES not in your criteria? Why is career finishing rate 10th, and title defense finishing rate not on the list?

Anybody can make a list of criteria to suit their agenda, but goddamn, boy....

My first criteria is title fight record, which is a better criteria than just title defences for many reasons. Some fighters can have multiple title reigns or title reigns in several weight classes.

Example:

Fighter A has 4 title defences at 170. 5-0 title fight record.

Fighter B had 3 title defences and a interim tittle before that, moved up won and defended the title at a higher weight class. 6-0 title fight record.

Fighter B> Fighter A

 

[samIam]

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. DJ
4. Fedor
5. Aldo

 

[G10]

Sherdog's definitive GOAT criteria.

1) Have they ever pulled out of a fight?
2) Are they a manlet?
3) Have they ever popped for roids?
4) Have they ever tapped to strikes?

If the answer to any of those is yes, then they're not the GOAT.

Lol, troof

 

[Bilzerian]

No PED using

 

[G10]

There’s is much discussion about who is the greatest of all time here on Sherdog. I thought it would be cool to make some definite criteria through which we could compare fighters. Here are my takes:

1. Title fight record
2. UFC/Pride record
3. Longest UFC win streak
4. Multiple weight championships
5. Strength of competition
6. H2H competition
7. Overall MMA record
8. Minor league titles
9. Overall skill set
10. Finishing rate

Let’s take the 4 usual suspects (Jones, GSP, Fedor, Anderson) and compare them by these criteria.

1. Jones, GSP, Anderson, Fedor
2. Jones, GSP, Fedor, Anderson
3. Jones, Anderson, GSP, Fedor
4. GSP, Anderson, Fedor, Jones
5. Jones, GSP, Fedor, Anderson
6. Jones, GSP, Anderson, Fedor
7. Jones, GSP, Fedor, Anderson
8. Fedor, Anderson, Jones, GSP
9. Jones, GSP, Anderson, Fedor
10. Fedor, Anderson, Jones, GSP

this would clearly make Jones #1, GSP would come in 2nd followed by Fedor and Anderson finishing 4th.

What do make if these criteria?

I like your criteria TS, but I think it's a little too detailed. I think you can knock off 1, 2, 3, and 8. Your 4 is good, but there should be an obvious heavyweight exception because those guys usually don't have the option to move either up or down in weight class. Also, I guess you can make two lists: one for if you care about PEDs in sport and another if you don't. I agree with your picks though!

 

[Fioretti]

My first criteria is title fight record, which is a better criteria than just title defences for many reasons. Some fighters can have multiple title reigns or title reigns in several weight classes.

Example:

Fighter A has 4 title defences at 170. 5-0 title fight record.

Fighter B had 3 title defences and a interim tittle before that, moved up won and defended the title at a higher weight class. 6-0 title fight record.

Fighter B> Fighter A

Getting a title, defending it, and never losing it is GREATER than losing title shots, defenses, gaining an interim title, or winning a belt and never defending it. You're measuring greatness, right? You lack context in your criteria here, and you're also missing a few things.

Anderson Silva's first title was at WW, and he defended that title a few times, then vacated it without ever losing it. He also won the Cage Rage MW title and defended it a few times, then vacated without losing it. You have him lower than he should be in both title fights and titles in other weight classes. He also has the longest UFC win streak. Jones has the longest unbeaten streak because he has a NC.

Finishes, especially in title defenses, should have much more weight than your proposed criteria. We're measuring greatness, right? Seems obvious to me that your "criteria" are agenda driven.

 

[GOATtalks]

Getting a title, defending it, and never losing it is GREATER than losing title shots, defenses, gaining an interim title, or winning a belt and never defending it. You're measuring greatness, right? You lack context in your criteria here, and you're also missing a few things.

Anderson Silva's first title was at WW, and he defended that title a few times, then vacated it without ever losing it. He also won the Cage Rage MW title and defended it a few times, then vacated without losing it. You have him lower than he should be in both title fights and titles in other weight classes. He also has the longest UFC win streak. Jones has the longest unbeaten streak because he has a NC.

Finishes, especially in title defenses, should have much more weight than your proposed criteria. We're measuring greatness, right? Seems obvious to me that your "criteria" are agenda driven.

Non UFC/Pride titles don’t count.
This will show you a full picture for your understanding.