CPAC 2014 Minority outreach panel

[AgeofEmpires2**]

I don't hate all college professors, just the hypocritical and overly liberal ones. As they say, those who can't do...

 

[Jack V Savage]

I suppose if I told you I was in favor of GMO labeling you would spin that into a hard core right wing thing too.

Your games are bizarre. You love labeling and stereotyping, like you get off on it.

No, that's the kind of non-ideological thing that you used to post more of before reading CT propaganda moved you to the right.

If you only go back to Vietnam, sure.

Or either of the WWs, the Mexican-American War, etc. Is this really a controversial position?

 

[Denter]

I don't know how anyone can see the Democrat party as anti-war.

Well, they did split on 'Nam and eventually opposed it after Nixon won in 1968. Right wingers at the time generally wanted to escalate the war by bombing NVA's ports and railheads, but others in the right wing feared that too much aggressive action could bring in the Chinese, like happened in Korea.

Then, the left opposed Reagan's operations in Central America and GHWB's Operation Just Cause, and most of them voted against Desert Storm. Many also voted against the second Iraq War.

So for the past fifty years or so they have been more anti-war, although there is still a strong isolationist wing of the Republican Party.

 

[Denter]

Or either of the WWs, the Mexican-American War, etc. Is this really a controversial position?

Wilson and Roosevelt were right wing maniacs, I get it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Wilson and Roosevelt were right wing maniacs, I get it.

WWII got pretty wide support, but what opposition it did get was from the left. The left in America was *strongly* against WWI. In fact, the harsh suppression of protests by left-wingers at that time effectively killed the socialist movement in the country until the Depression brought some of it back. I'm surprised you weren't aware of that.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I think he's a racist communist twat who approves of affirmative action.

Not to mention, college professors are the modern slave drivers making sure the youth are put into debt for worthless degrees. He makes money off of ideological imaginary problems for an astronomical price and the false promise that going to college for debt slavery will be rewarded. He claims to be against the capitalistic system, but he's the very cog in the most corrupt market that plagues the youth to date- which actually makes him a perfect cookie-cutter communist as history always shows. Fuck him.

Not all degrees are worthless.

 

[Denter]

WWII got pretty wide support, but what opposition it did get was from the left. The left in America was *strongly* against WWI. In fact, the harsh suppression of protests by left-wingers at that time effectively killed the socialist movement in the country until the Depression brought some of it back. I'm surprised you weren't aware of that.

The Republicans prior to Pearl Harbor were very isolationist. Most socialists changed their tune once Hitler invaded the USSR, though. Robert Taft ("Mr. Republican") opposed becoming involved in the European or Asian wars, however, along with many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n-interventionism_shortly_before_World_War_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_II

As I'm sure you are aware, Wilson campaigned on keeping us out of the war. A month or so after being sworn in, he changed his tune, of course. But most of his opposition did in fact come from socialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_I#In_the_United_States

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I suppose if I told you I was in favor of GMO labeling you would spin that into a hard core right wing thing too.

Your games are bizarre. You love labeling and stereotyping, like you get off on it.

That's what the left does. It's not bizarre, it's just low.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The Republicans prior to Pearl Harbor were very isolationist. Most socialists changed their tune once Hitler invaded the USSR, though. Robert Taft ("Mr. Republican") opposed becoming involved in the European or Asian wars, however, along with many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n-interventionism_shortly_before_World_War_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_II

As I'm sure you are aware, Wilson campaigned on keeping us out of the war. A month or so after being sworn in, he changed his tune, of course. But most of his opposition did in fact come from socialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_I#In_the_United_States

That's true. WWII opposition was complicated (and small) and varied at times. But WWI opposition was very clearly from the left, as was opposition to the Spanish-American and Mexican-American wars. Generally, throughout the nation's history, including up to the present, for obvious reasons, opposition to war has been a left-wing thing.

 

[Denter]

That's true. WWII opposition was complicated (and small) and varied at times. But WWI opposition was very clearly from the left, as was opposition to the Spanish-American and Mexican-American wars. Generally, throughout the nation's history, including up to the present, for obvious reasons, opposition to war has been a left-wing thing.

Yeah this is generally true, although I'm not sure there really was a cognizable right and left around the Civil War times and earlier.

 

[ABACA]

WWII got pretty wide support, but what opposition it did get was from the left. The left in America was *strongly* against WWI. In fact, the harsh suppression of protests by left-wingers at that time effectively killed the socialist movement in the country until the Depression brought some of it back. I'm surprised you weren't aware of that.

I think you got that backwards. The left were strong supporters of fighting the Nazis, especially after Barbarossa. The largest opposition to US involvement in WWII came from the fascists.

 

[ABACA]

Yeah this is generally true, although I'm not sure there really was a cognizable right and left around the Civil War times and earlier.

You have to remember that the civil war was the continuation of the bourgeois revolution in the US. So the whole Left = support of workers & right = support of capitalists paradigm doesn't really make a whole lot of sense before the civil war.

 

[kpt018]

That's the perception. You could make the case both parties appeal to identity politics.

What's good for poor people is a complex issue, and complex issues are usually spun into bite sized talking points.

What do you mean? The right clearly says/does things that appeal to racist voters. Some left leaning folks have pointed that out, OK. I am refuting your point that conservatives are viewed as racist or pandering to racists due solely to the idea that Democrats are "painting" them in that light.

I don't know where you're going with the 2nd point. Who are you referring to? Both sides?

You can certainly argue about the extent to which certain programs help the poor, but it's very clear that right wing policies very much favor the rich at the expense of the poor and it's very clear that the left things income inequality is a problem that needs to be addressed. Again, you can argue if the left's ideas will have a significant enough impact, but it's very clear who is fighting for the poor and who is fighting for the wealthy.

 

[Lead]

So they attempted to reach out and failed. Romney went the NAACP and the news story became how he was booed. Making the GOP into this stereotypical group of ignorant bigots isn't going to be able to work in the future. Their attempts to reach out with liberal media jumping on it and calling it pathetic just makes their side look racist. The fact they they have this entitlement to minority voters just makes me sick. The GOP has far more rising hispanic politicians and they still get labeled racist.

 

[Falsedawn]

So they attempted to reach out and failed. Romney went the NAACP and the news story became how he was booed. Making the GOP into this stereotypical group of ignorant bigots isn't going to be able to work in the future. Their attempts to reach out with liberal media jumping on it and calling it pathetic just makes their side look racist. The fact they they have this entitlement to minority voters just makes me sick. The GOP has far more rising hispanic politicians and they still get labeled racist.

Could it be that for every hispanic politician in the gop there's 100 knuckledraggers with perpetual "foot in mouth" syndrome?

Might it also be that the gop is a huge opponent of comprehensive immigration reform to the point the prominent GOP journalists like Ann Coulter (while at CPAC mind you) decried the perceived "Browning of America"?

Could it be that the GOP effectively told minorities to fuck off for the last slice of fucking forever and are so out of touch with minority issues that they come off as condescending, dishonest, and totally incompetent?

Surely none of that is true right? Nah, its the big bad left boogeyman smearing the shit out of the nice friendly GOP right? Fucking lol.

 

[Lead]

Could it be that for every hispanic politician in the gop there's 100 knuckledraggers with perpetual "foot in mouth" syndrome?

Might it also be that the gop is a huge opponent of comprehensive immigration reform to the point the prominent GOP journalists like Ann Coulter (while at CPAC mind you) decried the perceived "Browning of America"?

Could it be that the GOP effectively told minorities to fuck off for the last slice of fucking forever and are so out of touch with minority issues that they come off as condescending, dishonest, and totally incompetent?

Surely none of that is true right? Nah, its the big bad left boogeyman smearing the shit out of the nice friendly GOP right? Fucking lol.

The "100 knuckledraggers" you are describing may exist but are an old arm of the party that is dying out. You likely would've thrown Romney into that stereotype during the election but now we have MSNBC hosts making jokes about his black grandson.

Immigration reform is an issue the GOP is open to. If you look at the 2016 candidates with a chance on the GOP side, they are all open to a path to citizenship. The problem is democrats want to monopolize this issue into the narrative your post carries and make it into, GOP=racist, Dem=open party.

Immigration reform is a very important issue and one that can't just be shoved through without taking time to make key implementations. Dems just want citizenship to all and no border security from what I've seen. Given however, the House GOP has also been stonewalling as well but I think that's because the GOP actually believes a immigration reform agenda in 2016 will benefit them.

In the end, both party's are positioning themselves on an issue for votes/party control rather than the true importance of the issue. Nothing surprising.

 

[Jack V Savage]

So they attempted to reach out and failed. Romney went the NAACP and the news story became how he was booed. Making the GOP into this stereotypical group of ignorant bigots isn't going to be able to work in the future. Their attempts to reach out with liberal media jumping on it and calling it pathetic just makes their side look racist. The fact they they have this entitlement to minority voters just makes me sick. The GOP has far more rising hispanic politicians and they still get labeled racist.

Romney specifically went to the NAACP thing to get booed as a way to play to his base. Remember what he said when he got the boos. And isn't the real question why the GOP has this entitlement to white working-class Southern voters? *Every* other ethnic group is overwhelmingly Democrat, and white working class voters are split pretty evenly in every other region but the South. That's the real outlier voting bloc.

 

[Lead]

Romney specifically went to the NAACP thing to get booed as a way to play to his base. Remember what he said when he got the boos. And isn't the real question why the GOP has this entitlement to white working-class Southern voters? *Every* other ethnic group is overwhelmingly Democrat, and white working class voters are split pretty evenly in every other region but the South. That's the real outlier voting bloc.

Do you believe with the profile you just put on the GOP voting bloc that they wouldn't be attempting to reach out to other groups by now? How can either party ignore hispanic voters at this point?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Do you believe with the profile you just put on the GOP voting bloc that they wouldn't be attempting to reach out to other groups by now? How can either party ignore hispanic voters at this point?

I think that strategists in the party know that they have to reach out to other groups, definitely. But it puts them in conflict with their own base, and there are still many in the party who think they can win by gobbling up a still-bigger share of white voters. You brought up immigration reform. That was something people had hope for because it was a political winner for Republicans and a policy win for Democrats. The thinking was that you win elections to enact policy so Democrats would be willing to trade the political loss to get something they wanted, and Republicans would realize their bad position and do it. But no. Didn't happen.

 

[Lead]

I think that strategists in the party know that they have to reach out to other groups, definitely. But it puts them in conflict with their own base, and there are still many in the party who think they can win by gobbling up a still-bigger share of white voters. You brought up immigration reform. That was something people had hope for because it was a political winner for Republicans and a policy win for Democrats. The thinking was that you win elections to enact policy so Democrats would be willing to trade the political loss to get something they wanted, and Republicans would realize their bad position and do it. But no. Didn't happen.

Yea, but you are talking about a small chuck of the southern whites more than the actual base. The chunk you're talking about is what takes them over the top. That is something that can be replaced while keeping the base happy. If you cut all the talk radio/Fox news chatter, I'm certain the majority of republicans want immigration reform.

I think the darker side of the GOP even wants some degree of immigration reform because the truth is, immigrants provide cheap labor to companies. The problem is those politicians realize citizenship will mean a push for higher wages. It's a tightrope for them.