Regimen Could being really strong for your weight division justify not cutting water weight

[Deaths Head]

It's very tough to debate when you move goalposts around.

Self defense is not murder. If some 6'8 400lb thug tries to rob your granny, she has every right to shoot him in self defense.

So now Manny would not only have to fight a significantly larger and likely stronger opponent but would also have to fight in a completely different discipline where he's even at a skill disadvantage?

You win.

Manny Granny would be an awesome movie ..he could dress like granny but knock everyone out that tries to mug him .

 

[Deaths Head]

I dont think you have disproven anything. Strength is the greatest variable in a fight.

That is the statement and I do not see how you are going to disprove that.

That is not saying to only train for strength at all times or that training to be the worlds strongest man with absolutely zero skill training at all will make you the UFC champion. If training for strength compromises your skill and conditioning then you are strength training incorrectly.

This isn't saying that a weaker smaller man cannot defeat a stronger person. It is simply saying that strength is the greatest variable.

There is no changing of goal posts here.

Even as a strength guy I’d disagree here strength isn’t the greatest variable unless all things are equal so it eliminates strength itself . Strength is a great attribute but it only comes in secondary to what the skills do or one displays .

Strength wouldn’t be the greatest variable bc then you’d see much more different outcomes in fights it doesn’t make sense and that’s coming from the people’s bicep champion here on Sherdog .

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Even as a strength guy I’d disagree here strength isn’t the greatest variable unless all things are equal so it eliminates strength itself . Strength is a great attribute but it only comes in secondary to what the skills do or one displays .

Strength wouldn’t be the greatest variable bc then you’d see much more different outcomes in fights it doesn’t make sense and that’s coming from the people’s bicep champion here on Sherdog .

You guys can disagree all you want but at the higher levels of sport strength is the greatest variable. This is why women cannot compete against men and why men identify as trans and try to win gold medals against women.

I think the issue is you guys think that I am saying that squat, bench and deadlift is the sole determinate test for who is stronger in a given sport but it isn't the case as there are numerous other ways to build strength for a given sport.

This is why mma fighters nearly kill themselves to cut 30 pounds in a week to get an advantage.

Inherently everybody knows this is true.

This isn't saying because you are weaker on SBD that you cannot be greater at a given sport than somebody who is stronger on that given metric.

What happens is when that already strong person with strength that is applicable to a given sport does develop the technique and specific conditioning then you get a champion or a contender at the least.

Everybody here seems to think that there isn't diminishing returns on technical practice as well as strength training. There are also diminishing returns on conditioning for a given sport.

I will use myself as an example. If I didnt strength train and only trained technique in my sport of baseball there is no way that I would have been able to extend my ability to play at a reasonably high level for 20 some odd years. If I decided to just stay at 155 pounds and only train technique my entire life then nobody would want me to play in a competitive environment. Anybody can just go play a sport for fun but to actually be competitive you have to go outside of that sport specific practice to continue to get better or you will just plateau in technical proficiency and never reach your potential because you chose to remain weak and say here I have superb technique and that's enough. If that is your goal to be just good enough for a personal achievement that is fine but do not lie about it and say that if I trained for strength on top of my technical practice that I couldn't be a better athlete in that given sport.

Bo Jackson dominated because he was such a stronger more explosive athlete than everybody else on the field. Bonds was already an all star before taking steroids to turn into basically superman at the plate and then had to go in front of Supreme Court to defend himself.

This is how important strength is in a sport. To say it is not the most important variable is insane. Nobody is going to Supreme Court because they were just too technically sound for everybody else to compete against.

 

[Oblivian]

You guys can disagree all you want but at the higher levels of sport strength is the greatest variable. This is why women cannot compete against men and why men identify as trans and try to win gold medals against women.

I think the issue is you guys think that I am saying that squat, bench and deadlift is the sole determinate test for who is stronger in a given sport but it isn't the case as there are numerous other ways to build strength for a given sport.

This is why mma fighters nearly kill themselves to cut 30 pounds in a week to get an advantage.

Inherently everybody knows this is true.

This isn't saying because you are weaker on SBD that you cannot be greater at a given sport than somebody who is stronger on that given metric.

What happens is when that already strong person with strength that is applicable to a given sport does develop the technique and specific conditioning then you get a champion or a contender at the least.

Everybody here seems to think that there isn't diminishing returns on technical practice as well as strength training. There are also diminishing returns on conditioning for a given sport.

I will use myself as an example. If I didnt strength train and only trained technique in my sport of baseball there is no way that I would have been able to extend my ability to play at a reasonably high level for 20 some odd years. If I decided to just stay at 155 pounds and only train technique my entire life then nobody would want me to play in a competitive environment. Anybody can just go play a sport for fun but to actually be competitive you have to go outside of that sport specific practice to continue to get better or you will just plateau in technical proficiency and never reach your potential because you chose to remain weak and say here I have superb technique and that's enough. If that is your goal to be just good enough for a personal achievement that is fine but do not lie about it and say that if I trained for strength on top of my technical practice that I couldn't be a better athlete in that given sport.

Bo Jackson dominated because he was such a stronger more explosive athlete than everybody else on the field. Bonds was already an all star before taking steroids to turn into basically superman at the plate and then had to go in front of Supreme Court to defend himself.

This is how important strength is in a sport. To say it is not the most important variable is insane. Nobody is going to Supreme Court because they were just too technically sound for everybody else to compete against.

I love how you concluded your post with an analogy to leave no doubt that you are a complete idiot.

 

[NoSmilez]

It's not just strength. You cut weight to be the taller person.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

It's not just strength. You cut weight to be the taller person.

Yes taller has a reach advantage thus stronger for the sport. That is partly why Jon Jones is a goat. Not only is strong but also taller than everybody. Anderson Silva was the same way at middleweight. They appeared weak just by looking at the physique but were strong for mma.

 

[maximus__]

I love how you concluded your post with an analogy to leave no doubt that you are a complete idiot.

So like everyone else says, strength is important if all else is equal or to make it simpler if other attributes have been sufficiently developed for the athlete to be successful in the sport.

It's just a misunderstanding of the actual meaning of the most important variable, just like squatting 455 was confused with squatting 500lbs and accidentally adding a 100lbs+ to the online meet total.

 

[maximus__]

Yes taller has a reach advantage thus stronger for the sport. That is partly why Jon Jones is a goat. Not only is strong but also taller than everybody. Anderson Silva was the same way at middleweight. They appeared weak just by looking at the physique but were strong for mma.

Strength is now height?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Being taller increases your leverages at range for keeping people away from taking you down and also leverage for striking and thus more devastating strikes at range. By having better leverages it means you are stronger in more metrics in a fight.

The benefit you have from being short is a lower center of gravity therefore harder to come inside on you or go for doubles or single legs takedowns.

Fighting is a simple sport and the way it has been made into organic chemistry and a needing psychologist with 3 masters degrees and a residency is laughable.

 

[godhatesacoward]

You guys can disagree all you want but at the higher levels of sport strength is the greatest variable. This is why women cannot compete against men and why men identify as trans and try to win gold medals against women.

I think the issue is you guys think that I am saying that squat, bench and deadlift is the sole determinate test for who is stronger in a given sport but it isn't the case as there are numerous other ways to build strength for a given sport.

This is why mma fighters nearly kill themselves to cut 30 pounds in a week to get an advantage.

Inherently everybody knows this is true.

This isn't saying because you are weaker on SBD that you cannot be greater at a given sport than somebody who is stronger on that given metric.

What happens is when that already strong person with strength that is applicable to a given sport does develop the technique and specific conditioning then you get a champion or a contender at the least.

Everybody here seems to think that there isn't diminishing returns on technical practice as well as strength training. There are also diminishing returns on conditioning for a given sport.

I will use myself as an example. If I didnt strength train and only trained technique in my sport of baseball there is no way that I would have been able to extend my ability to play at a reasonably high level for 20 some odd years. If I decided to just stay at 155 pounds and only train technique my entire life then nobody would want me to play in a competitive environment. Anybody can just go play a sport for fun but to actually be competitive you have to go outside of that sport specific practice to continue to get better or you will just plateau in technical proficiency and never reach your potential because you chose to remain weak and say here I have superb technique and that's enough. If that is your goal to be just good enough for a personal achievement that is fine but do not lie about it and say that if I trained for strength on top of my technical practice that I couldn't be a better athlete in that given sport.

Bo Jackson dominated because he was such a stronger more explosive athlete than everybody else on the field. Bonds was already an all star before taking steroids to turn into basically superman at the plate and then had to go in front of Supreme Court to defend himself.

This is how important strength is in a sport. To say it is not the most important variable is insane. Nobody is going to Supreme Court because they were just too technically sound for everybody else to compete against.

strength is the biggest at the highest level of the sport because everyone on the highest level is skilled

 

[ROcknrollracing]

strength is the biggest at the highest level of the sport because everyone on the highest level is skilled

exactly yes

 

[maximus__]

strength is the biggest at the highest level of the sport because everyone on the highest level is skilled

Which athletes at the highest level of the sport are winning by being the strongest?

All the champions have higher level conditioning or technical ability in a specific area than the rest of their division.
Especially the multiple times defending champs.

Pantoja- Keeps taking fighters backs and finishing them there.
Merab-Keeps outwrestling people and using his cardio
Volk-The shortest outside striker in MMA and is one of the best conditioned athletes in MMA
Ilia- Best inside boxing and keeps destroying people because of it.
JDM- Best boxer in a division of grappler and scrambles harder than they can keep up with.
DDP- High level conditioning and strong (Best argument here)
Ank- Outstruck a listless Alex
Apsinall- Fastest Heavyweight in the division

 

[maximus__]

Being taller increases your leverages at range for keeping people away from taking you down and also leverage for striking and thus more devastating strikes at range. By having better leverages it means you are stronger in more metrics in a fight.

The benefit you have from being short is a lower center of gravity therefore harder to come inside on you or go for doubles or single legs takedowns.

Fighting is a simple sport and the way it has been made into organic chemistry and a needing psychologist with 3 masters degrees and a residency is laughable.

You mean better, not stronger now...

Having a longer reach means nothing if you don't have the ability to fight at range. Being Short and having a lower centre of gravity is useless if you can't down block or defend a takedown correctly.

Nobody is claiming that, but the ability to understand the difference between strength and a reach advantage is a good start...

 

[godhatesacoward]

Which athletes at the highest level of the sport are winning by being the strongest?

All the champions have higher level conditioning or technical ability in a specific area than the rest of their division.
Especially the multiple times defending champs.

Pantoja- Keeps taking fighters backs and finishing them there.
Merab-Keeps outwrestling people and using his cardio
Volk-The shortest outside striker in MMA and is one of the best conditioned athletes in MMA
Ilia- Best inside boxing and keeps destroying people because of it.
JDM- Best boxer in a division of grappler and scrambles harder than they can keep up with.
DDP- High level conditioning and strong (Best argument here)
Ank- Outstruck a listless Alex
Apsinall- Fastest Heavyweight in the division

merab's strength played a big role against Sean I'd argue but in MMA the skill ceiling is nearly infinite

 

[ROcknrollracing]

You guys are hilarious. You think that conditioning and technique is some type of magic trick.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Which athletes at the highest level of the sport are winning by being the strongest?

merab's strength played a big role against Sean I'd argue but in MMA the skill ceiling is nearly infinite

Nunez, Kayla, jon jones

There is no champion that is not strong or a contender or in talks for goat.

Any other whacked out theories you guys come up with goes in one ear and out the other on my side. That’s why I have most of these guys on ignore.

 

[Oblivian]

I honestly wonder how you can function in day to day life. Do you think Sean Woodson is stronger than most of the opponents he's beaten? Chase Hooper?

 

[maximus__]

Which athletes at the highest level of the sport are winning by being the strongest?

merab's strength played a big role against Sean I'd argue but in MMA the skill ceiling is nearly infinite

He outstruck him in the second fight before wearing him down and adding submissions to his game. He wasn't even legit trying to wrestle and hold him down until the 3rd.

Omalley was talking about how he put a heap of work into strength training going into the fight... He should have stuck to what he was good at tried to catch Merab again at range coming in.

He fatigued Omalley, made him question his ability to strike and then added something he didn't do in their previous fight.

 

[maximus__]

Nunez, Kayla, jon jones

There is no champion that is not strong or a contender or in talks for goat.

Any other whacked out theories you guys come up with goes in one ear and out the other on my side. That’s why I have most of these guys on ignore.

Nunes was the first well rounded fighter in her division. Before that it was only grapplers or strikers like Ronda or Holly.

Kayla is an olympic judoka. She has an entire skillset the girls who got into MMA for fitness can't match.

Jones lifted weights towards rhe end of his best period in the division. None of his wins are due to being stronger. He ia primarily a distance striking point fighter who catches people if he hurts them and finishes with an oppurtunistic sub or tko.

There is no contender or GOAT candidate that doean't have either a higher skill level somewhere than the rest of their division or is better conditioned when it comes to 5 rounders.

Plenty of top levels guys wouldn't be considered strong comparable to the rest of their division.

 

[maximus__]

I honestly wonder how you can function in day to day life. Do you think Sean Woodson is stronger than most of the opponents he's beaten? Chase Hooper?

Picks 3 fighters who have major akill advantages over their divisions as examples of strength.

Kayla is closest but we saw what Rousey did without winning gold until she got wrecked by basic striking. Kayla is more successful than Rousey and took that loss pre UFC and adjusted prior to coming across.