Law Corruption Crumble:

Sinister

Doctor of Doom
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
55,154
Reaction score
36,871
This is kind of a follow-up thread to my Capitalism Crumble thread, because I saw an interview that made me wonder how we got to such a heavily corporate-influenced place where all of us, regardless of party affiliation or ideology, always have some underlying inclination that our voices dont matter. Well, this thread is about why our voices don't matter, who was responsible for it, and why it seems nearly impossible to overcome (but its not, yet).

Lewis Powell - Lewis Powell was an industry lawyer for tobacco companies. He crafted the Powell Memo, which essentially declared that the problem with American "Free Enterprise" was democracy itself. Powell essentially hated Ralph Nader and his work exposing corruption of American Industry, putting profit before people. Powell saw this as a step towards socialism. In other words, the Government was doing too much of what the people wanted, cracking down on how often private industry will kill consumers to pad the margins. Keep in mind Powell was head of the board for Phillip-Morris, and was one of the chief legal factors for tobacco companies in burying the causative relationship between cigarettes and cancer.

Powell first argued in Courts that publishing of scientific research undermined the free speech of the tobacco companies when news agencies didn't give credence to their cancer denials. The Powell Memo essentially laid the blueprint for the modern notion that private industry should have much more say in US politics, laws, and thought in general. Nixon then approached Powell for a Supreme Court position. Nixon, who was being given bags of cash for Presidential favoritism. Nixon, who absolutely WAS a crook.



In his book "Master Plan: The Hidden Plot to Legalize Corruption in America" author David Sirota publishes not only the Powell Memo itself, but also lays out events during Powell's tenure on the Supreme Court. Keeping in mind his efforts helped launch a flurry of budding think tanks and NGO's funded by heirs of wealthy elites, such as the Carthage Foundation, the Heritage Foundation, the ALEC, The Cato Institute, and even inspired the Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active. Powell's influence from the bench was to set the stage for the Citizens United decision. But first there were smaller, lesser-known cases that changed the purview of U.S. politics.

Buckley v Valeo - this was the precursor decision that undermined the Federal Election Campaign Act which was passed in an effort to curtail corporate spending, private industry influence on US elections. Buckley declares this unconstitutional as an infringement of Free Speech.

Here is as much as the Federalist Society could sanitize the decision:



First National Bank v Belotti - First National bank wanted to use their considerable resources to defeat a ballot initiative on tax reform. This is a direct appeal of a corporation to the Courts to use their wealth to undermine the public in the political sphere, and was the first case that declared that doing so was a 1st Amendment right.



These decisions were both penned by Powell, and they created the legal precedence for Citizens United to eventually come down, having established the premise that essentially a corporation is a human being. This all came from the Powell Memo:



Since then its gotten worse, as we all know. Corporations can now not only engage in this "free speech" where essentially dollars equate to votes, but the donor class can also influence who even runs in elections by threatening PAC activity against unfavorable candidates. Some US Politicians have even said they use this influence to quash bills they dont like, but are very popular with the electorate. All they have to do is flash that paper, and the politician gets the idea, unlimited resources will be put against them. Similar to what we are all suggesting AIPAC does. There have also been bribery convictions overturned by the SCOTUS because there is a distinct effort to change the scope of what "bribery" means to essentially make it impossible to enforce against. In fact our illustrious Vice President is spearheading a case going before the Court that will erode what's left of Campaign Finance Laws after Citizen's United, and would essentially pave the way for parties to pass donor money directly into the hands of candidates. That would create an employer/employee scenario. Remember how Vance recently answered about Tom Homann's bribery scandal. "There is no evidence that he did anything illegal." He wouldnt answer if the money was kept or if it was a bribe. He knows it was, he just thinks it shouldnt be

So what do we do. Well Sirota pointed out a few things that sound worthwhile to consider if you dont want mega corporations ruling your every movement in this Country. But as I mentioned in the Capitalism thread this CANNOT be fixed from the top down. Not when the donor class first decides who can even run in National elections. Ever wonder why our choices always suck, or candidates who are extremely popular get eliminated by weird circumstances? That's why. The focus needs to be within States. Citizens United says corporations are entitled to the same rights as individuals, however State laws dictate what a corporation even is. Montana has a ballot measure to simply say that, as a corporation, the organization is NOT granted the power to influence elections within the State. And the measure was introduced in a bipartisan manner. Disclosure is also important. The Disclosure Act to shed light on dark money groups didnt pass. But Arizona passed their own version of it. Also think of this: These decisions essentially are based on the premise that a corporation (a false entity created by the State), is entitled to the same rights guaranteed to Citizens, to people, by the Constitution. That seems to call into question what personhood actually is, which seems like a good weak spot for legal challenge.

In reading through a bit of the opinions rendered in the above cases, it's really pretty porous and shaky reasoning. Citizens United even has a disclosure clause that was just never legally adhered to because it was essentially an encouragement of disclosure, not a requirement. But that it acknowledges the essential nature of disclosure seems contradictory to the existence of dark money Super PAC's, funded by people who see democracy as something standing in their way, something "bad for business."
 
Last edited:
These decisions were both penned by Powell, and they created the legal precedence for Citizens United to eventually come down, having established the premise that essentially a corporation is a human being.


In reading through a bit of the opinions rendered in the above cases, it's really pretty porous and shaky reasoning. Citizens United even has a disclosure clause that was just never legally adhered to because it was essentially an encouragement of disclosure, not a requirement. But that it acknowledges the essential nature of disclosure seems contradictory to the existence of dark money Super PAC's, funded by people who see democracy as something standing in their way, something "bad for business."


wild that 'being able to define a woman' is such a hot-button issue in modern politics, but corporations having human rights and deserving the respect due to personhood barely raises any eyebrows, never mind objections. Well, when I say wild, its depressingly and terminally predictable.
 
Labor-union_final-9c471e2612264e2dbe615fec1fef17db.png
 
wild that 'being able to define a woman' is such a hot-button issue in modern politics, but corporations having human rights and deserving the respect due to personhood barely raises any eyebrows, never mind objections. Well, when I say wild, its depressingly and terminally predictable.
How are you going to trust someone who can’t do the former to manage the latter? Not that they were doing anything about it anyway. Both parties are getting rich from corporate collusion. The reality is that we have no viable options, so I’ll go with the ones who can define basic terms like “woman”.

Pro tip: you can’t win elections without being on the popular side of cultural issues. Maybe learn that and adapt.
 
wild that 'being able to define a woman' is such a hot-button issue in modern politics, but corporations having human rights and deserving the respect due to personhood barely raises any eyebrows, never mind objections. Well, when I say wild, its depressingly and terminally predictable.

Well, this whole thing still requires consent of the Governed and they know that. See rightists who are elites or pander to them just cannot wrap their heads around the concept of self-determination. And what I mean by that is they think we should be content to be ruled by our betters. Hence their detachment from democracy ever-increasing. I dont blame the working class for not being very aware of this, except the MAGAtards who go on TV or X and say they think a dictatorship is a good idea, or that democracy failed while still believing thst democracy got then exactly what they wanted. That's why I think the "No Kings" protests burn them up so much. It's a stark reminder that millions of Americans arent likely to acquiesce to authoritarianism.

But I agree that this characterization of personhood is absurd. The corrupt players involved in making this landscape happen didnt need sound legal theory to do this, what they needed was enough influence over the levers of power to make absurd legal theories that fit their viewpoints the law of the land.
 
How are you going to trust someone who can’t do the former to manage the latter? Not that they were doing anything about it anyway. Both parties are getting rich from corporate collusion. The reality is that we have no viable options, so I’ll go with the ones who can define basic terms like “woman”.

Pro tip: you can’t win elections without being on the popular side of cultural issues. Maybe learn that and adapt.

The way to win an election without being on the popular side of cultural issues is just to disenfranchise millions of voters while having the donor class essentially purchase votes for you, and a friendly Court to that practice who won't abide the illegality of such behavior, but would if it were your opponent.

Voting for the far more aggressive and egregious authoritarians because "the trans" is admitting to probably the most laughable way they get working class people to vote against their own interests. Most people who vote that way only see trans people in the.pages contained in their browser histories.
 

Powell definitely hated Unions with the same vehemence that guys like Musk and Bezos do. However contained within a lot of those SCOTUS decisions is the notion that Unions and corporations are both protected by these same ideas. Makes you wonder why there weren't landmark SCOTUS cases about a Union being a human being and why no one is challenging Trump's removal of the Unionization of Federal employees on that grounds. Maybe they are and its just being ignored by media, but Unionization is definitely a powerful tool to help combat the corruption if the Government is just determined to turn itself into a corporation.
 
Last edited:
The way to win an election without being on the popular side of cultural issues is just to disenfranchise millions of voters while having the donor class essentially purchase votes for you, and a friendly Court to that practice who won't abide the illegality of such behavior, but would if it were your opponent.

Voting for the far more aggressive and egregious authoritarians because "the trans" is admitting to probably the most laughable way they get working class people to vote against their own interests. Most people who vote that way only see trans people in the.pages contained in their browser histories.
Nothing has been more authoritarian in my lifetime than Democrat governors and mayors implementing lockdowns, some of which lasted 18 months, while allowing Walmarts and large corporate entities to remain open. Those policies resulted in the largest transfer of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the upper class in history. It also made lots of people lose their trust in medical professionals. People haven’t forgotten that.
 
That's cool, why is membership mandatory? My father was a construction manager, the constant extortion was sickening. I never worked a union job and I turned down union jobs on principle. I personally know many union scammers and braggarts who celebrate their laziness and exorbitant pay.

Serious question for all union supporting homeowners, do you hire union electricians? plumbers? HVAC? Etc?
 
Nothing has been more authoritarian in my lifetime than Democrat governors and mayors implementing lockdowns, some of which lasted 18 months, while allowing Walmarts and large corporate entities to remain open. Those policies resulted in the largest transfer of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the upper class in history. It also made lots of people lose their trust in medical professionals. People haven’t forgotten that.

If those entities were open, then there weren't "lockdowns." I understand if the inconvenience of covid broke your brain, but we didnt have hard lockdowns here the way places like Japsn and China did. My State had a Democrat Governor back then and I went outside every single day, I went to those stores, and almost everywhere else.

Also I find it comical that you are railing against Democrats specifically because you don't want to grapple with who was President when all that began. Who dumped billions of our tax dollars down Wall Street only for it the market to crash anyway. Who explicitly wanted the only distribution of financial aid to go to corporations (McConnel said this on camera) while most packing plant managers were caught running betting pools on how many of their workers would die.

Any Governers could make certain decisions on public safety that you're complaining about because of the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which is why there was never any hard Federsl lockdown under Trump or Biden when he came into office. States were free to mitigate the crisis and you, someone in the medical industry according to yourself, are upset that some States listened to the consensus of your field. Are you under some weird impression that wealth has ever actually been trickling down or something? I mean there is a 50-year study that says that giving all our money to the corporations is a huge failure. So instead of going back half a decade to covid-brain, overseen by Trump, try to grapple with the idea that you've now enabled people who want to do wealth transfer upward even harder...in some weird version of protest.
 
That's cool, why is membership mandatory? My father was a construction manager, the constant extortion was sickening. I never worked a union job and I turned down union jobs on principle. I personally know many union scammers and braggarts who celebrate their laziness and exorbitant pay.

Serious question for all union supporting homeowners, do you hire union electricians? plumbers? HVAC? Etc?
Extortion implies that someone was paying into a thing without receiving anything back for their contribution. What was the pay/benefits package valued at for these extorted Union members? And what was that compared to non-Union workers on average?

My wife is in a Union that cant even strike legally. However we know the value of her compensation, and we also know that there is a private business here that does what she does and offers slightly better pay, but would require higher pay for insurance and she would lose much of her pension.
 
If those entities were open, then there weren't "lockdowns." I understand if the inconvenience of covid broke your brain, but we didnt have hard lockdowns here the way places like Japsn and China did. My State had a Democrat Governor back then and I went outside every single day, I went to those stores, and almost everywhere else.

Also I find it comical that you are railing against Democrats specifically because you don't want to grapple with who was President when all that began. Who dumped billions of our tax dollars down Wall Street only for it the market to crash anyway. Who explicitly wanted the only distribution of financial aid to go to corporations (McConnel said this on camera) while most packing plant managers were caught running betting pools on how many of their workers would die.

Any Governers could make certain decisions on public safety that you're complaining about because of the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which is why there was never any hard Federsl lockdown under Trump or Biden when he came into office. States were free to mitigate the crisis and you, someone in the medical industry according to yourself, are upset that some States listened to the consensus of your field. Are you under some weird impression that wealth has ever actually been trickling down or something? I mean there is a 50-year study that says that giving all our money to the corporations is a huge failure. So instead of going back half a decade to covid-brain, overseen by Trump, try to grapple with the idea that you've now enabled people who want to do wealth transfer upward even harder...in some weird version of protest.
States listened to the “concensus of my field” that were allowed to voice their opinions. The rest were censored, and there was by far no agreement. I’m all for quarantining sick people and regionally flattening curves as cases became prevalent, but that’s not what was happening.

Like I said, the most authoritarian thing in my lifetime was the democrats response to Covid.
 
States listened to the “concensus of my field” that were allowed to voice their opinions. The rest were censored, and there was by far no agreement. I’m all for quarantining sick people and regionally flattening curves as cases became prevalent, but that’s not what was happening.

Like I said, the most authoritarian thing in my lifetime was the democrats response to Covid.

There was global agreement. There's no sense in downplaying that. Even RFK had to recently admit in a Senate hearing that the vaccine he called the most dangerous vaccine in History saved millions of lives, and when challenged on who he represents with his viewpoints from the medical community he named like 4 guys compared to Associations consisting of thousands of doctors and scientists.

Going by your own words you werent entirely opposed to some "authoritarianism"...meaning public safety measures. You just think that amid a global emergency some places went too far and I guess a bit upset that the Governnent didnt do enough to make the working class whole in an economic and political model that favors the donor class (which is what this thread is about). I agree with about 2/3 of that position. I agree the Government favored the corporations, did pretty much f*ck-all for the working class, but I dont agree that my Government was egregiously oppressing me. A few boxing gyms here stayed open the entire time and maybe 2 of them got fined and that's because they were posting videos on social media. There wasnt even an enforcement mechanism patrolling. My wife, who works for the health department, said the inspectors werent even tasked with reporting who was violating covid measures.

The Government should have spent a lot more money on working class people ti pay their landlords, feed their families, etc. Should have used better oversight of use of PPP loans. Should have outlawed using loan money for stock buybacks. Why didn't they? Because our laws and politicians favor that class of people. They're paid to.

I mean going back to the main argument if the thread, just like how absurd it is that we have egregious receiveds of bribes by wealthy donors sitting ON the Suoreme Court while wielding the power to legally determine what constitutes bribery. Lol
 
That's cool, why is membership mandatory? My father was a construction manager, the constant extortion was sickening. I never worked a union job and I turned down union jobs on principle. I personally know many union scammers and braggarts who celebrate their laziness and exorbitant pay.

Serious question for all union supporting homeowners, do you hire union electricians? plumbers? HVAC? Etc?

As far as "why is membership mandatory" is concerned, my question for you is why should people not paying union dues get union representation and benefits for their union job then? Seems like those people hiring on that don't want to join the union are just mooching off the system.

You talk about union workers being lazy, try working a blue collar union job. It's not exactly "lazy". I'm a proud IAFF member working for a busy city just north of Detroit. I've been injured 3 times so far at my job. I've had co workers suffer injuries that forced them off the job. People die doing this. This isn't some cushy desk work.

As far as hiring union workers, yes I try to. I even do my grocery shopping at union stores by me (Kroger and Meijer).
 
Last edited:
There was global agreement. There's no sense in downplaying that. Even RFK had to recently admit in a Senate hearing that the vaccine he called the most dangerous vaccine in History saved millions of lives, and when challenged on who he represents with his viewpoints from the medical community he named like 4 guys compared to Associations consisting of thousands of doctors and scientists.

Going by your own words you werent entirely opposed to some "authoritarianism"...meaning public safety measures. You just think that amid a global emergency some places went too far and I guess a bit upset that the Governnent didnt do enough to make the working class whole in an economic and political model that favors the donor class (which is what this thread is about). I agree with about 2/3 of that position. I agree the Government favored the corporations, did pretty much f*ck-all for the working class, but I dont agree that my Government was egregiously oppressing me. A few boxing gyms here stayed open the entire time and maybe 2 of them got fined and that's because they were posting videos on social media. There wasnt even an enforcement mechanism patrolling. My wife, who works for the health department, said the inspectors werent even tasked with reporting who was violating covid measures.

The Government should have spent a lot more money on working class people ti pay their landlords, feed their families, etc. Should have used better oversight of use of PPP loans. Should have outlawed using loan money for stock buybacks. Why didn't they? Because our laws and politicians favor that class of people. They're paid to.

I mean going back to the main argument if the thread, just like how absurd it is that we have egregious receiveds of bribes by wealthy donors sitting ON the Suoreme Court while wielding the power to legally determine what constitutes bribery. Lol


yah, in the UK the whole situation around covid was an excuse for the politicians and their intimates to make money off the back of it

EG: there was a 'covid procurement fast track' where potential suppliers who were known to members of the Gov't could jump the queues and, armed with a recommendation by their close friend in the gov't dispense with the normal tendering/etc parts of the procurement process

you had people who had never in their lives produced PPE getting multi-million £ contracts to do just that.

there was a guy whose qualification for getting the contract was that he ran the pub that the Health Minister went into quite often.

It was literally sickening to read.
 
A good OP.

I remember being in a heated debate with JVS about campaign financing and his entire argument was that corporations being able to do what you’re decrying was protected by the first amendment. It is such a BS position.

What do we do? Bring back the gallows IMO.
 
A good OP.

I remember being in a heated debate with JVS about campaign financing and his entire argument was that corporations being able to do what you’re decrying was protected by the first amendment. It is such a BS position.

What do we do? Bring back the gallows IMO.

It boggles my mind that there wasn't universal outrage over CU, and an immediate campaign to reverse it. Or if there was, I never heard of it. It doesn't speak well of The Left that they can turn out in large numbers for George Floyd and not even bother to set a single car alight over CU

out of interest, did the Dems ever campaign on doing so? I don't recall it being a thing with them. Mind you I suppose they would have needed to pack the USSC to do it and that ship sailed with McConnell/Garland etc etc etc- or did they have a realistic chance before then?
 
It boggles my mind that there wasn't universal outrage over CU, and an immediate campaign to reverse it. Or if there was, I never heard of it. It doesn't speak well of The Left that they can turn out in large numbers for George Floyd and not even bother to set a single car alight over CU

out of interest, did the Dems ever campaign on doing so? I don't recall it being a thing with them. Mind you I suppose they would have needed to pack the USSC to do it and that ship sailed with McConnell/Garland etc etc etc- or did they have a realistic chance before then?

As a party, the Democrats sold out their constituency for corporate PAC money. That's why they're so feckless. They're beholden to the same donors. The only contentious Democrats are progressives and DSA products and they're much too few. They seemed to figure if they cant beat the Republican Donors' reckless spending, they should get some of that cheddar, too.
 
If those entities were open, then there weren't "lockdowns." I understand if the inconvenience of covid broke your brain, but we didnt have hard lockdowns here the way places like Japsn and China did. My State had a Democrat Governor back then and I went outside every single day, I went to those stores, and almost everywhere else.

Also I find it comical that you are railing against Democrats specifically because you don't want to grapple with who was President when all that began. Who dumped billions of our tax dollars down Wall Street only for it the market to crash anyway. Who explicitly wanted the only distribution of financial aid to go to corporations (McConnel said this on camera) while most packing plant managers were caught running betting pools on how many of their workers would die.

Any Governers could make certain decisions on public safety that you're complaining about because of the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which is why there was never any hard Federsl lockdown under Trump or Biden when he came into office. States were free to mitigate the crisis and you, someone in the medical industry according to yourself, are upset that some States listened to the consensus of your field. Are you under some weird impression that wealth has ever actually been trickling down or something? I mean there is a 50-year study that says that giving all our money to the corporations is a huge failure. So instead of going back half a decade to covid-brain, overseen by Trump, try to grapple with the idea that you've now enabled people who want to do wealth transfer upward even harder...in some weird version of protest.

Not to mention that many businesses chose to temporarily "lockdown" in some way without orders from state governments, either because of worker safety or because it didn't make economical sense for them to stay opened when demand in certain industries became nearly nonexistent.
 
As a party, the Democrats sold out their constituency for corporate PAC money. That's why they're so feckless. They're beholden to the same donors. The only contentious Democrats are progressives and DSA products and they're much too few. They seemed to figure if they cant beat the Republican Donors' reckless spending, they should get some of that cheddar, too.

what was the reaction to CU at the time, then? I Was there any pushback from the Dems? Did Obama even condemn the ruling?
 
Back
Top