<<Console Wars>> PS5 vs. XSX

[jojoRed]

XSX wins a strong majority of loading comparisons.

Nearly all of the PS5 released third party titles have slightly better loading times on the PS5. Like COD, Watchdogs, AC Valhalla etc. Im not talking about the BC games but for the new games on the XSX/PS5.

There is also the latest Call of Duty game where the XSX wins the optimal graphics mode due to more ray-tracing "intersection hardware-accelerated" cores.

Well you have an excuse for the framerate dips below for the XSX [devs getting the dev kits too late etc], but disregard the bug for the RT mode for COD on the PS5? I made a post about it a few days ago on here. You would need to give the dub to the PS5 for COD since it performs better across nearly all modes.

The fact developers are taking longer to adapt to the more advanced dev kit in the Xbox is the most logical explanation for the games where it tends to suffer framerate dips, as the puzzlement of the DF commenters themselves conveys, and that is reinforced by the fact it took less than a week to patch Valhalla to close the performance gap in that particular game (according to Ubisoft themselves). Another example is Dirt 5. Their own developer has confirmed it was a development issue by them resulting in the XSX's underperformance. Separately, DF themselves already speculated the texture filter discrepancy was likely due to a bug:

The thing is those game are performing better on the PS5 right now....

At the end of the day, hardware is hardware, and the XSX is ~30% superior using nearly identical hardware pipelining on identical architecture (Zen 2 & RDNA 2.0). Never has a lesser GPU or CPU in this situation outperformed a greater counterpart once drivers and game patches matured.

Fair enough, but theyre not outperforming the PS5 now, and its not outperforming by 30%.

 

[Dizzy]

Nearly all of the PS5 released third party titles have slightly better loading times on the PS5. Like COD, Watchdogs, AC Valhalla etc. Im not talking about the BC games but for the new games on the XSX/PS5.


Well you have an excuse for the framerate dips below for the XSX [devs getting the dev kits too late etc], but disregard the bug for the RT mode for COD on the PS5? I made a post about it a few days ago on here. You would need to give the dub to the PS5 for COD since it performs better across nearly all modes.


The thing is those game are performing better on the PS5 right now....

Fair enough, but theyre not outperforming the PS5 now, and its not outperforming by 30%.

He’s talking about BC games loading faster. That’s basically it.

And it never will outperform the PS5 by 30% either. There isn’t going to be some magical boost that lifts it far past what the PS5 is capable of. It’s playing catch-up right now.

 

[jojoRed]

He’s talking about BC games loading faster. That’s basically it.

This makes sense since I read that BC games arent optimised to use the full capabilities of the SSD [makes sense since why would you develop for future gen consoles?]. But yeah, seems like BC games load quicker in XSX. I guess due to the better CPU.

And it never will outperform the PS5 by 30% either. There isn’t going to be some magical boost that lifts it far past what the PS5 is capable of. It’s playing catch-up right now.

Here's what we know. PS5 is outperforming the XSX on a majority of new third party releases. In some instances, not by a lot, and in others, significantly outperforming the XSX and with faster loading times.
Im currently playing DeS and the loading times on that game are stupid. Sure the XSX is the more powerful console, on paper, yet its still lagging behind. Shouldnt it be more powerful out the gate like when the PS4 and PS3 were the more powerful consoles out in the previous gens? The PS5 doesnt currently have VRR, whilst the XSX does [iirc].

Im not shilling for the PS5 since I actually shit on it with the BC games generally underperforming compared to the XSX. A faster SSD and yet slower loading times?? But then I realised what I said in the beginning -> BC games arent optimised to use the full capabilities of the SSD [makes sense since why would you develop for future gen consoles?].

 

[Mau]

I'm living to see two games from Ubisoft, filled with bugs, being used as benchmark of performance. Ugh.

 

[Lubaolong]

Sony has historically had the best exclusives. Microsoft has been buying up companies, but virtually all of this will also release on PC, so this is a non issue. Sony will have actual true must-play exclusives.

 

[Madmick]

This makes sense since I read that BC games arent optimised to use the full capabilities of the SSD [makes sense since why would you develop for future gen consoles?]. But yeah, seems like BC games load quicker in XSX. I guess due to the better CPU.


Here's what we know. PS5 is outperforming the XSX on a majority of new third party releases. In some instances, not by a lot, and in others, significantly outperforming the XSX and with faster loading times.
Im currently playing DeS and the loading times on that game are stupid. Sure the XSX is the more powerful console, on paper, yet its still lagging behind. Shouldnt it be more powerful out the gate like when the PS4 and PS3 were the more powerful consoles out in the previous gens? The PS5 doesnt currently have VRR, whilst the XSX does [iirc].

Im not shilling for the PS5 since I actually shit on it with the BC games generally underperforming compared to the XSX. A faster SSD and yet slower loading times?? But then I realised what I said in the beginning -> BC games arent optimised to use the full capabilities of the SSD [makes sense since why would you develop for future gen consoles?].

There is no such thing as optimization to take advantage of "the full capabilities" of these newer SSDs. We're talking about speed on a linear scale. Besides, SSDs have been in existence on multiplat games that also exist on PC for over a decade including NVMe half a decade. Third, the last gen games were already "optimized" for the newer consoles. It's plain the two consoles with always trade blows on load times. Sometimes the XSX's CPU will win the race, sometimes the PS5's SSD will. So far the XSX has won the majority of races.

XSX has VRS, along with a slew of other new DX12 features not on the PS5. PS5 has VRR.

Why the XSX isn't outperforming the PS5 on more titles out of the gate is a good question, but one also answered by the dev kit explanation. Neither the PS4 or XB1 introduced completely new API features, and Sony was similarly better known then for including simpler dev toolkits. It would perhaps be more appropriately analogized to the PS3 vs. X360 comparison where it was so difficult to develop for the Cell processor, which is why it lagged at the onset of that generation, but was producing a majority of titles known for generation-defining graphics by the end of their run. It won't take that long, in this case, since we aren't talking about a completely alien processor, but the analogy serves well.

It will outperform the PS5 with its large processing power advantage overhead. It's inevitable. I would advise skepticism of posters who insist otherwise. For example, one is so ignorant of tech he read "VRR" to mean "virtual reality" just two weeks ago, but he'll posture as some sort of expert on these matters today. It's comical.

 

[jojoRed]

There is no such thing as optimization to take advantage of "the full capabilities" of these newer SSDs. We're talking about speed on a linear scale. Besides, SSDs have been in existence on multiplat games that also exist on PC for over a decade including NVMe half a decade. Third, the last gen games were already "optimized" for the newer consoles. It's plain the two consoles with always trade blows on load times. Sometimes the XSX's CPU will win the race, sometimes the PS5's SSD will. So far the XSX has won the majority of races

Im not gonna pretend I completely understand how the SSD on the PS5 works. Its not that I cant comprehend the technicalities, but I dont care enough. But Im aware that video games are designed with the hardware in mind, and thus gameplay elements are literally designed based on the capabilities of the hardware.
There obviously must be something with the PS5 SSD since its loading higher quality assets with bigger game worlds in seconds, faster than the best optimised titles on the last gen. I know the GPU and CPU have a lot to do with that, but in third party titles, newer third party games are loading faster on the PS5. Not only that but the CPU/GPU are slightly weaker on the PS5, and its still outperforming the XSX now. There has to be something with the SSD....

XSX has VRS, along with a slew of other new DX12 features not on the PS5. PS5 has VRR.

Sure, but Sony have their own implementations and API's that are similar.

Why the XSX isn't outperforming the PS5 on more titles out of the gate is a good question, but one also answered by the dev kit explanation. Neither the PS4 or XB1 introduced completely new API features, and Sony was similarly better known then for including simpler dev toolkits. It would perhaps be more appropriately analogized to the PS3 vs. X360 comparison where it was so difficult to develop for the Cell processor, which is why it lagged at the onset of that generation, but was producing a majority of titles known for generation-defining graphics by the end of their run. It won't take that long, in this case, since we aren't talking about a completely alien processor, but the analogy serves well.

The PS3 was a beastly machine and difficult to program for so it makes sense why third party titles weren't utilising its power effectively early on. The thing is, that difficulty doesn't exist with the XSX, since Microsoft/Sony have made developing for their consoles easier. That with the XSX being more powerful on paper, makes it baffling why its not consistently outperforming the PS5 right out the gate, like the PS4 did.

It will outperform the PS5 with its large processing power advantage overhead. It's inevitable.

Im not going to doubt that, since devs will get better at working on these kits to bring the best out each console. TLOU was the best looking game on the 7th gen of consoles and that came right at the end of the life of the PS3. But I wonder when that power will start to be utilised. Id love to see what these consoles are capable of when given enough time. Ryze was a stunner right out the gate for the XBX, which looked much better than the Halo that was shown for the XSX.

But the point still stands, the PS5 is leading out the gate on weaker hardware when talking about new third party titles.

 

[Madmick]

Im not gonna pretend I completely understand how the SSD on the PS5 works. Its not that I cant comprehend the technicalities, but I dont care enough. But Im aware that video games are designed with the hardware in mind, and thus gameplay elements are literally designed based on the capabilities of the hardware.

This is really what it's about. With NVMe now the baseline, developers will make larger, more loaded instances.

There obviously must be something with the PS5 SSD since its loading higher quality assets with bigger game worlds in seconds, faster than the best optimised titles on the last gen. I know the GPU and CPU have a lot to do with that, but in third party titles, newer third party games are loading faster on the PS5. Not only that but the CPU/GPU are slightly weaker on the PS5, and its still outperforming the XSX now. There has to be something with the SSD....

Of course there's something with the SSD. It's faster. That means very little. We know that from the PC world with perfect controls. With the latest octacore CPUs and everything else identical, the differences in load times even with the most demanding game loads is fractions of a second between the fastest NVMe drives and the slowest.

Sure, but Sony have their own implementations and API's that are similar.

No, they don't. I discussed my surprise at this before.

The PS3 was a beastly machine and difficult to program for so it makes sense why third party titles weren't utilising its power effectively early on. The thing is, that difficulty doesn't exist with the XSX, since Microsoft/Sony have made developing for their consoles easier. That with the XSX being more powerful on paper, makes it baffling why its not consistently outperforming the PS5 right out the gate, like the PS4 did.

Yes, it is. RDNA 2.0 is brand new, so the XSX taking advantage of a range of features the PS5 does not entails toolkits that are less familiar to developers.

Im not going to doubt that, since devs will get better at working on these kits to bring the best out each console. TLOU was the best looking game on the 7th gen of consoles and that came right at the end of the life of the PS3. But I wonder when that power will start to be utilised. Id love to see what these consoles are capable of when given enough time. Ryze was a stunner right out the gate for the XBX, which looked much better than the Halo that was shown for the XSX.

But the point still stands, the PS5 is leading out the gate on weaker hardware when talking about new third party titles.

It's a mixed bag. Someone will have to count it up for me.

 

[jojoRed]

No, they don't. I discussed my surprise at this before.

Out of everything, this is the biggest shock. Is this really true? That would be shocking to see if Sony didnt have their own APIs and implementations.

RDNA 2.0 is brand new, so the XSX taking advantage of a range of features the PS5 does not entails toolkits that are less familiar to developers.

Isnt the PS5 using a similar RDNA 2 GPU? That would also mean that the PS5 is as difficult [or close to] to develop for than the XSX going by that logic. I still dont think its as difficult to optimise and program for than the PS3's CPU. Youd honestly be shocked at how disgusting code bases for some PS3 games are.

It's a mixed bag. Someone will have to count it up for me.

Im sure one of these 'objective' console comparison videos will add it up.

 

[Madmick]

Out of everything, this is the biggest shock. Is this really true? That would be shocking to see if Sony didnt have their own APIs and implementations.

Isnt the PS5 using a similar RDNA 2 CPU? That would also mean that the PS5 is as difficult [or close to] to develop for than the XSX going by that logic. I still dont think its as difficult to optimise and program for than the PS3's CPU. Youd honestly be shocked at how disgusting code bases for some PS3 games are.

Im sure one of these 'objective' console comparison videos will add it up.

Yes, the PS5 has an RDNA 2.0 GPU, so it can support all of the features supported by the GPU, unless their deal with AMD involved some sort of disabling at the hardware level, but that's highly improbable, and nobody has reported it, but they aren't using the full feature set (Microsoft even bragged about this without specifically mentioning Sony in a blog post). These are the newest features that only the latest APIs leverage which are most unfamiliar to developers.

 

[jojoRed]

Yes, the PS5 has an RDNA 2.0 GPU, so it can support all of the features supported by the GPU, unless their deal with AMD involved some sort of disabling at the hardware level, but that's highly improbable, and nobody has reported it, but they aren't using the full feature set (Microsoft even bragged about this without specifically mentioning Sony in a blog post). These are the newest features that only the latest APIs leverage which are most unfamiliar to developers.

Theyre both using Zen 2 CPUs aswell. So the XSX not outperforming is still weird.

 

[Plissken]

I mean do people think that with two systems with nearly identical cpu and gpu architecture (made by the same company in both cases) and identical RAM type and amount that the one that has higher specs is actually less powerful due to some games not taking advantage of it? The PS5 possibly loading faster due to their custom SSD I can see, but it's just silly to think something that's essentially made the same way but with higher specs (GPU, CPU, and RAM specs) is weaker.

 

[jojoRed]

I mean do people think that with two systems with nearly identical cpu and gpu architecture (made by the same company in both cases) and identical RAM type and amount that the one that has higher specs is actually less powerful due to some games not taking advantage of it? The PS5 possibly loading faster due to their custom SSD I can see, but it's just silly to think something that's essentially made the same way but with higher specs (GPU, CPU, and RAM specs) is weaker.

Nobody is saying the XSX is weaker, its around 25% more powerful. But its power is not showing up in the new third party releases, and load times are significantly slower [with the third party games]. Thats surprising. Dirt 5 seems to also lack in texture detail on the XSX compared to the PS5 [looks abysmal] and with the Halo trailer looking like a late 36O/early XBX game, is frankly terrible.

 

[Lubaolong]

Anyone else get the feeling that there's a lot more interest in the PS5 than the Xbox? I know PS5 has been outselling the Xbox, which partially has something to do with availability, but I think you can also see the increased demand in eBay sales.

PS5 has over 31k completed auctions. Most of the ones I've seen recently have been in the $1000-1400 range.

Xbox Series X has 21k competed auctions, mostly in the $850-1000 range, and 6k completed auctions for Series S.

Anecdotally, I sold the PS5 and all the accessories the first day I listed them. I was not able to sell the Series X or Series S for profit and ended up just returning them.

Looking at historic console sales, I guess this is nothing new. I never looked at this before, but it looks like Playstations have always significantly outsold their Xbox counterparts.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Anyone else get the feeling that there's a lot more interest in the PS5 than the Xbox? I know PS5 has been outselling the Xbox, which partially has something to do with availability, but I think you can also see the increased demand in eBay sales.

PS5 has over 31k completed auctions. Most of the ones I've seen recently have been in the $1000-1400 range.

Xbox Series X has 21k competed auctions, mostly in the $850-1000 range, and 6k completed auctions for Series S.

Anecdotally, I sold the PS5 and all the accessories the first day I listed them. I was not able to sell the Series X or Series S for profit and ended up just returning them.

Looking at historic console sales, I guess this is nothing new. I never looked at this before, but it looks like Playstations have always significantly outsold their Xbox counterparts.

Of course there’s more interest in the ps5. The last generation was very lopsided in favour of the PS4 over the One in terms of market dominance. Naturally right out of the gate there will be more demand for the ps5 than the Series X.

For things to equalize a bit the Series X will have to demonstrate the superiority of its hardware and Microsoft’s first party studio acquisitions will have to start delivering big dividends in order to get the consumers that are going to wait a while before moving up to the new generation to lean towards Xbox.
Microsoft has plenty of time and opportunity to make a strong showing this generation, but out of the gate the results shouldn’t be any surprise for a larger chunk of the consumer base going for the ps5

 

[method115]

Anecdotally, I sold the PS5 and all the accessories the first day I listed them. I was not able to sell the Series X or Series S for profit and ended up just returning them.

Pretty surprised by this. Didn't think it would be heard to sell the X for profit maybe the S I could see.

 

[Dizzy]

Anyone else get the feeling that there's a lot more interest in the PS5 than the Xbox? I know PS5 has been outselling the Xbox, which partially has something to do with availability, but I think you can also see the increased demand in eBay sales.

PS5 has over 31k completed auctions. Most of the ones I've seen recently have been in the $1000-1400 range.

Xbox Series X has 21k competed auctions, mostly in the $850-1000 range, and 6k completed auctions for Series S.

Anecdotally, I sold the PS5 and all the accessories the first day I listed them. I was not able to sell the Series X or Series S for profit and ended up just returning them.

Looking at historic console sales, I guess this is nothing new. I never looked at this before, but it looks like Playstations have always significantly outsold their Xbox counterparts.

It doesn’t seem close, really. Microsoft seems to be stumbling out of the gate again, feels like they needed a very strong build up and launch to get people to change platforms.

There is no such thing as optimization to take advantage of "the full capabilities" of these newer SSDs. We're talking about speed on a linear scale. Besides, SSDs have been in existence on multiplat games that also exist on PC for over a decade including NVMe half a decade. Third, the last gen games were already "optimized" for the newer consoles. It's plain the two consoles with always trade blows on load times. Sometimes the XSX's CPU will win the race, sometimes the PS5's SSD will. So far the XSX has won the majority of races.

XSX has VRS, along with a slew of other new DX12 features not on the PS5. PS5 has VRR.

Why the XSX isn't outperforming the PS5 on more titles out of the gate is a good question, but one also answered by the dev kit explanation. Neither the PS4 or XB1 introduced completely new API features, and Sony was similarly better known then for including simpler dev toolkits. It would perhaps be more appropriately analogized to the PS3 vs. X360 comparison where it was so difficult to develop for the Cell processor, which is why it lagged at the onset of that generation, but was producing a majority of titles known for generation-defining graphics by the end of their run. It won't take that long, in this case, since we aren't talking about a completely alien processor, but the analogy serves well.

It will outperform the PS5 with its large processing power advantage overhead. It's inevitable. I would advise skepticism of posters who insist otherwise. For example, one is so ignorant of tech he read "VRR" to mean "virtual reality" just two weeks ago, but he'll posture as some sort of expert on these matters today. It's comical.

Swing and a miss. I said that the difference in resolution in Squadrons was because the PS4 version supports VR.

Had nothing to do with VRR.

What size are those clown shoes of yours?

 

[Lubaolong]

Pretty surprised by this. Didn't think it would be heard to sell the X for profit maybe the S I could see.

Assume you got some bundle, pay taxes and shipping, and end up spending maybe $660. With eBay and PayPal fees and the cost of shipping, you need to sell it for around $820 just to break even. There are definitely some consoles selling for this and a little more, but there are so many of these listed around this price range, it’s hard to find a buyer. My listing would have netted me a modest $30 profit, but it didn’t sell, so I returned it. I guess I could have tried to sell it locally, but it didn’t seem worth the hassle.

 

[Madmick]

LOL, the resident Gump is trying play off that he thought VRR meant Virtual Reality.

 

[Dizzy]

LOL, the resident Gump is trying play off that he thought VRR meant Virtual Reality.

That’s exactly what I meant, wtf?

So can you play Squadrons in VR on the Series X now?

So I’m assuming then that you didn’t realize the PS4 supported VR. There’s really no other explanation why you misinterpret that so badly. VR is going to have to play at a lower resolution, hence the difference between the two.

Quit while you’re behind.