Opinion Conservatism will always be a threat to democracy

[Islam Imamate]

When the federal govt is holding the SAA form that she signed saying she understands the rules?

You're asking me if a cop deciding to not give me a speeding ticket after I admit to going 70 in a 55 means that I didn't break the law.

My answer is of course I broke the law, I just wasn't punished for it.

For her to be convicted it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she committed the crime which is hard to do as its not even clear if the law itself applies. Remember in a courtroom there is the prosecution and the defense so you have to be confident you can convince the jury in the face of a defense that can point to the doubts around the application of the law much less the mitigating circumstances like the fact that most of the material she put on her server wasn't classified at the time.

I think you're assuming a nefarious motive here when I think the doubt around such a case helps explain the lack of enthusiasm on the part of the prosecutors. Its not like we're talking about Obama's DOJ, this was under four years of Trump and they still couldn't put together a case.

 

[Scerpi]

The link you cited above seems to suggest otherwise:


In light of this don't you think its possible that investigators decided in good faith there wasn't a case here or at least not one that could be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in court?

Correct.... The Bleachbit app they used was thorough. Clinton's team did a nice job of covering their tracks.

And the fact that they used something like that doesn't raise any concerns for you? They're never going to know everything that was passed through her private server. Classified or not.

Thank god that corrupt bitch lost...

BleachBit "stifles investigation" of Hillary Clinton | BleachBit

The IT team for presidential candidate Hillary Clinton used the open source cleaning software BleachBit to wipe systems "so even God couldn’t read them," according to South Carolina Rep. Trey Gowdy on Fox News. His comments on the "drastic cyber-measure" were in response to the question of whether her emails were simply about "yoga and wedding plans."

Last year when Clinton was asked about wiping her email server, she joked, "Like with a cloth or something?" It turns out now that BleachBit was that cloth, according to remarks by Rep. Gowdy.

@ThreatcoreNews compared the situation to the 18 minutes of audio erased from tapes from President Richard Nixon's Oval Office.

Jonathan Zdziarski quoted on CNN.com argued, "Someone trying to cover their tracks would likely pay for and use a much more expensive, specialized data destruction tool," but commercial tools leave a money trail.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Correct.... The Bleachbit app they used was thorough. Clinton's team did a nice job of covering their tracks.

And the fact that they used something like that doesn't raise any concerns for you? They're never going to know everything that was passed through her private server. Classified or not.

Thank god that corrupt bitch lost...

BleachBit "stifles investigation" of Hillary Clinton | BleachBit

The IT team for presidential candidate Hillary Clinton used the open source cleaning software BleachBit to wipe systems "so even God couldn’t read them," according to South Carolina Rep. Trey Gowdy on Fox News. His comments on the "drastic cyber-measure" were in response to the question of whether her emails were simply about "yoga and wedding plans."

Last year when Clinton was asked about wiping her email server, she joked, "Like with a cloth or something?" It turns out now that BleachBit was that cloth, according to remarks by Rep. Gowdy.

@ThreatcoreNews compared the situation to the 18 minutes of audio erased from tapes from President Richard Nixon's Oval Office.

Jonathan Zdziarski quoted on CNN.com argued, "Someone trying to cover their tracks would likely pay for and use a much more expensive, specialized data destruction tool," but commercial tools leave a money trail.

So you're agreeing that there probably isn't enough here to have made a case against Clinton?

 

[Jack V Savage]

But again whether or not Clinton was guilty of violating The Espionage Act is very much in doubt. I'm not saying that there isn't a case for it but for a federal prosecutor to bring up charges on that basis they'd have to be confident they could prove not only that she did what she did but that it falls under the purview of The Espionage Act and they have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury.

Don't you think its possible that federal agencies investigated the matter in good faith and decided there wasn't enough of a case here?

I think the big concern has been that the interpretation that would lead to charges might not even hold up constitutionally. But more than that, applying a law designed to prevent spying to a diplomat for a lack of tech savvy is just clearly a violation of the intent. Comey said it was not a close decision and that no prosecutor in the country would bring charges, which is a consensus view. It's telling that all comparison cases Republican partisans bring up involve clearly deliberate mishandling (and are often plead downs).

 

[Jack V Savage]

So you're agreeing that there probably isn't enough here to have made a case against Clinton?

One of the funniest mistakes partisans make in this whole thing is getting the destruction thing completely backwards. Protocol for dealing with old devices is physical destruction. Clinton has been criticized for not doing a good enough job with that, while a lot of people mistakenly think she did something wrong by trying to destroy them at all.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

For her to be convicted it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she committed the crime which is hard to do as its not even clear if the law itself applies. Remember in a courtroom there is the prosecution and the defense so you have to be confident you can convince the jury in the face of a defense that can point to the doubts around the application of the law much less the mitigating circumstances like the fact that most of the material she put on her server wasn't classified at the time.

I think you're assuming a nefarious motive here when I think the doubt around such a case helps explain the lack of enthusiasm on the part of the prosecutors. Its not like we're talking about Obama's DOJ, this was under four years of Trump and they still couldn't put together a case.

I don't believe it was nefarious, but it was a violation of the law as written. Should we drop Trump's documents case because he no vil intent?

She signed a SAA that says it's illegal and she understands that its illegal. That's all you need in my mind.

Of course when Sandy's Berger stole classified materials he was given a pardon so that he could keep his security clearance.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

One of the funniest mistakes partisans make in this whole thing is getting the destruction thing completely backwards. Protocol for dealing with old devices is physical destruction. Clinton has been criticized for not doing a good enough job with that, while a lot of people mistakenly think she did something wrong by trying to destroy them at all.

Correct me here, but didn't she bleach bit after congress asked for the records?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't believe it was nefarious, but it was a violation of the law as written. Should we drop Trump's documents case because he no vil intent?

She signed a SAA that says it's illegal and she understands that its illegal. That's all you need in my mind.

Of course when Sandy's Berger stole classified materials he was given a pardon so that he could keep his security clearance.

So to be clear you disagree with your own source in regards to the ambiguity of the application of The Espionage Act to Clinton right?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Correct me here, but didn't she bleach bit after congress asked for the records?

She didn't, no.

What I think you're confusedly referring to is that she had a third party sort emails, turning over records and deleting personal ones more than 60 days old. When Republicans found out she was using the same server for both, they requested the personal ones. An employee for the third party was behind on deleting old ones and did it anyway. No evidence that Clinton had any knowledge of that, and it appears they were recovered anyway.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

So to be clear you disagree with your own source in regards to the ambiguity of the application of The Espionage Act to Clinton right?

I wasn't siting a source, I was posting what the law actually says.m - it was just the first link that had the law written out.

I disagree with the notion that it was a murky case to establish vonsidering yhe SAA that the fbi read to her abd she signed - unless we're going to go with he was too dumb to understand a document that is read aloud to her and she signs.

Again, we have convicted service members for similar acts.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I wasn't siting a source, I was posting what the law actually says.m - it was just the first link that had the law written out.

I disagree with the notion that it was a murky case to establish vonsidering yhe SAA that the fbi read to her abd she signed - unless we're going to go with he was too dumb to understand a document that is read aloud to her and she signs.

Again, we have convicted service members for similar acts.

Well legal experts disagree with you. In light of that, the ambiguity of the case explains why no charges were brought by Trump's DOJ against Clinton despite him wanting to have her prosecuted better than whatever it is you're arguing.