International Conflict between Pakistan & India

BroRogan said:
This is the CIA's wet dream. A full blown war between India and Pakistan can drag China into it and completely fuck up any plans or aspirations for it to take Taiwan. Sit back and proxy war China through India like Ukraine.

Basically all the fake nations created under the British Empire are falling apart at exactly the most convenient time, because british/american intelligence deliberately created them to include these ethnic/political faultlines and then exacerbated them over decades by funding ethnic breakaway militias, and now they are kicking off WW3 to end the nation-state model and install regional and global models of governance.
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so why does china get involved? I woulda thought they have the biggest bag of popcorn
 
GhostZ06 said:
Do Indian pilots really suck ass this much?
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purely anecdotal, but: I went ot India in 2016/17, i happened to stay at a hotel where a load of international diplomats and ministers, David Cameron included, were there for a big Conference. I bumped into a guy wearing Royal Navy uniform in the lift and had a qucik chat, he was like a Naval Attache or whatever (the conference was on international relations/etc). I asked him if the UK deputation was partly there to sell UK equipment to India, to which he replied 'we don't really bother, we don't offer enough bribes for our goods to be bought by India', and that the French and Russians tended to be the ones selling to India (implicitly as they *would* give the bribes).

at the time the Indian Defence Minister was a guy called Yadav. He was renowned for corruption, he and his family were from Uttar Pradesh and they had carved out like a fiefdom out there, I talked to an Indian client about him and he exploded with rage, like its common knowledge these Yadavs (the guy had his brother in a prominent position too) had come from nothing, they were 'nothing but farmers, wrestlers, and now they live in million pound houses and drive luxury cars' and filled their own pockets

I doubt that Yadav is still Defence Minister, but I'd be pretty sure the same attitudes prevail in terms of arms procurement

there is also another factor in terms of militaries that are beneath the first world military threshold, which has been a thing for time immemorial, namely that a lot of the time these countries may get a lot of equipment that looks fantastic on paper and very impressive on parades, but they won't invest the same money in either training how to use the bright shiny new bits of expensive kit, or just as importantly, in spares and logistics to keep the kit running properly

another factor, in terms of Russian equipment, the Soviets going back years had a phrase 'monkey models' to indicate their export-specific models, which were the up to date Russian models in terms of airframe/tank body, but with the outmoded previous-generation avionics/ sights and sensors/electronics in general. This may apply to French or other exporters, too.

all of the above may well apply to Pakistan, too, of course.

But in general these encounters often remind me of reading of the Iran-Iraq war of the early 80s, both had (reasonably) up to date kit by the standards of the day but due to sanctions the Iranians weren't getting spare parts from the US for their kit, and Iraq was Iraq an autocracy governed by stupidity, and its like reading about two blind spastics trying to kill each other with rubber hammers. I wouldn't wager the average Indian/Pakistan fighter squadron would last 10 minutes in the skies against a (say) israeli equivalent.
 
BluntForceTrama said:
so why does china get involved? I woulda thought they have the biggest bag of popcorn
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i think you think right, China is vaguely aligned with Pakistan on a few things but that would fall far short of alliance and intervention AFAIK
 
Things are getting pretty heated over there. Hopefully cooler heads prevail
 
IanEdwards said:
purely anecdotal, but: I went ot India in 2016/17, i happened to stay at a hotel where a load of international diplomats and ministers, David Cameron included, were there for a big Conference. I bumped into a guy wearing Royal Navy uniform in the lift and had a qucik chat, he was like a Naval Attache or whatever (the conference was on international relations/etc). I asked him if the UK deputation was partly there to sell UK equipment to India, to which he replied 'we don't really bother, we don't offer enough bribes for our goods to be bought by India', and that the French and Russians tended to be the ones selling to India (implicitly as they *would* give the bribes).

at the time the Indian Defence Minister was a guy called Yadav. He was renowned for corruption, he and his family were from Uttar Pradesh and they had carved out like a fiefdom out there, I talked to an Indian client about him and he exploded with rage, like its common knowledge these Yadavs (the guy had his brother in a prominent position too) had come from nothing, they were 'nothing but farmers, wrestlers, and now they live in million pound houses and drive luxury cars' and filled their own pockets

I doubt that Yadav is still Defence Minister, but I'd be pretty sure the same attitudes prevail in terms of arms procurement

there is also another factor in terms of militaries that are beneath the first world military threshold, which has been a thing for time immemorial, namely that a lot of the time these countries may get a lot of equipment that looks fantastic on paper and very impressive on parades, but they won't invest the same money in either training how to use the bright shiny new bits of expensive kit, or just as importantly, in spares and logistics to keep the kit running properly

another factor, in terms of Russian equipment, the Soviets going back years had a phrase 'monkey models' to indicate their export-specific models, which were the up to date Russian models in terms of airframe/tank body, but with the outmoded previous-generation avionics/ sights and sensors/electronics in general. This may apply to French or other exporters, too.

all of the above may well apply to Pakistan, too, of course.

But in general these encounters often remind me of reading of the Iran-Iraq war of the early 80s, both had (reasonably) up to date kit by the standards of the day but due to sanctions the Iranians weren't getting spare parts from the US for their kit, and Iraq was Iraq an autocracy governed by stupidity, and its like reading about two blind spastics trying to kill each other with rubber hammers. I wouldn't wager the average Indian/Pakistan fighter squadron would last 10 minutes in the skies against a (say) israeli equivalent.
Click to expand...

"All the Gear, no Idea".
 
curryjunkie said:
Some of their cricket matches have got really violent, teams attacked ,etc
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if you go to the ticket office at Eden Gardens Kolkata, the opening for getting your tickets is like a letterbox it is so narrow, and it is like about 2 feet off the ground to prevent easy access, and the entire office is protected by what I can only describe as a petrol-bomb-proof, anti-riot cage. I mean, you get the strong impression they didn't go to all that trouble out of ungrounded paranoia or some tiny isolated incident, they probably had a mob try and kill everyone when they heard Tendulkar or Dhoni wouldn't play that day hahaha

even in the worst period of Uk football hooligamism in the 1980s, they never had anything like the equivalent, so yeah, subcontinental fan riots are a thing
 
It's all fun and games until India goes into the UK to get terrorist cells.
 
I've got 3 staff from Pakistani background and 2 from India, they get along fine and I'm not seeing any riots break out here yet, at least.

probably helps that any talk of politics is banned in my office
 
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