Complex Training; Who all does it?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by AU1977, May 27, 2008.

  1. AU1977

    AU1977 White Belt

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    I am thinking of adding some complex training into my regime.
    I am not 100 per cent sure of it, do you add an explosive excerise into your routine immediately after a maximal strength excercise.

    I watched a video (never had sound on teh computer though) of GSP doing med ball slams after weighted chin ups. However pull ups are a pulling excercise and slams are a push excercise? I thought the 2nd movment had to mimicjk the movemeent of the first? e.g bench press = plyometric push ups

    Anyone on here do them? and what sort of excerises do you pair up?
     
  2. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    wrong
     
  3. AU1977

    AU1977 White Belt

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    For what purpose?
     
  4. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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  5. Monger

    Monger Chronically Injured

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    joshetc,

    Did you see the video that he's referring too? I didn't see anything that I would consider "circuit" training in there. Of course I guess circuit training can be a broad term.

    I believe it was definitely meant to be complex training, though it may not have been fundamentally correct in all aspects. In regards to the heavy chins and med ball slams, the same thing did cross my mind as the OP stated. I would have done an explosive pulling movement vs. the med ball slams. Though later in the vid GSP did heavy DB pressing followed by med ball throws which I think entirely fits the definition of complex training.

    To answer the OP's question, my take on complex training is that you perform heavy lifts followed by a plyometric movement that mimics (at least to some degree) that lift.

    EDIT: I haven't read this in entirety, but this web site seems pretty decent to get an understanding of complex training Complex Training
     
  6. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    I do complex training. On the complex in question (slams + pullups) It's not entirely beyond the pale. It's hard to find a plyometric pair with pullups (high pulls and the like come to mind, but unless you're talking clapping pullups, it's a pretty unique movement), and slams recruit lat and shoulders in a similar enough manner to use as a complex pair.

    I'm still tinkering with complex training because honestly it seems like I'm trying to breathe through my eyes sometimes. What I mean is, after heavy deads (3-5 rep max) it's hard to hit a new PR on the explosive pair (cleans for example). So I'm going to tinker with the loads on the first exercise to try and determine what lends to greatest loads on the plyometric pairing.
     
  7. ThinkGreen

    ThinkGreen Der √úbermensch

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    Pretty sure Finnegan does lots of complex training; check out his log.
     
  8. Jake Martin

    Jake Martin Amateur Fighter

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    I've been working with them recently, since I'm tinkering with Urban's comprehensive program. I've never really paired lifts before like this (max strength + explosive), but I really enjoy it.

    Big fun is the heavy DL followed by the full clean. The numbers on the clean are pretty pathetic when I do it, but it just 'feels' like they fit together well.
     
  9. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    If anyone has the video in question, I'd be interested to see it.
     
  10. takeahnase

    takeahnase watching the swarm

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    Medicine ball slams work much of the same muscles as chinups (delts, traps, lats). Slams are also as much of a pulling as a pushing movement, think pullover (oh noes, a bodybuilding movement).
     
  11. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    See that's my concern. If it is in fact capitalizing on post activation potentiation to induce a window with elevated potential for explosiveness, then the cleans should in fact be easier after the deadlifts. which makes me think that striving for a really heavy dead in that pairing (and maybe all complex pairs) is wrong.
     
  12. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I mean if you look at the rotation of the shoulder and initial bend in the elbow until the ball gets about chest height, it's the same movement as a pullup. I GUESS, you could do band pulldowns or something if you wanted a better dynamic pairing, but honestly, why get that fancy if you don't have to?
     
  13. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Its not circuit training its supersetting a heavy max strength movement with a lighter power movement.

    Heavy pullups -> med ball slams
    Heavy db press -> med ball chest pass
     
  14. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    That's CLEARLY circuit training, he knows since he hasn't watched the video...
     
  15. joshetc

    joshetc butthole hurts from teh gay

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    Deadlift and Bench Press both work the delts / lats / traps. They are definitely different types of movements.

    I can't speak for the effectiveness of complex training, as I've never used it. I do however, know circuit training has a huge place in preparation for just about every sport, other than maximal strength training for powerlifting.

    Especially in sports that require you to be under a certain weight limit. Once you reach your strength peak at a certain bodyweight, you really have no choice other than to train for strength-stamina.
     
  16. Monger

    Monger Chronically Injured

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  17. Monger

    Monger Chronically Injured

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    I agree. Good point.
     
  18. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    Ok, on the medicine ball slam/pullup comparison I will do this one more time and then I'm through, cause if you don't get it I can't explain it to you...

    Pullup - a pulling motion beginning with the arms overhead pulling against resistance (gravity) to move the body upwards, similar to pulling a heavy object downward.

    Medicine ball slam - Initially a pulling motion beginning with the arms overhead pulling against resistance (force required to generate momentum) to move the object of resistance in the same vertical plane and direction as a pull-up. once the ball gets to about chin height the movement loses similarity... but that initial movement is good enough to justify the pairing.

    Are they a perfect pair? no. Are the similar enough to function in the context of complex training? yes.

    That's it! I'm done with this. If you cannot see the similarities between pull-ups and medicine ball slams, then I cannot help you at this point. I have done all I can. Good day sir!
     
  19. Donut62

    Donut62 Black Belt

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    Slams are definetely similar enough to a chin up to do it as a complex. Grab a lat pulldown handle and imitate the slam movement with just the upper body. Oh noes, you just a did a straight arm lat pulldown, which is commonly used as a great lat and middle back builder.
     
  20. bacon

    bacon Silver Belt

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    Well, yeah, but you have to clean the ball before you can slam it...
     

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