Combine cardio with heavy lifting?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by NoPain, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. NoPain

    NoPain Green Belt

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    Ey guys , i lift heavy like 2-3 times a week alot of olympic lifting now i was wondering how to combine it with cardio . I used to do more cardio based weight training. Cardio after a heavy workout?

    I was also wondering when i do 4 heavy lifts on 1 day how should i pick my lifts for that day. this are the lifts i mostly do now but i don't know if i combine them the right way.

    Bench press , Squat,Push press,Barbell row,deadlift,Stiff legged deadlift,Snatch,Cleans .

    thx
     
  2. PowerHungry

    PowerHungry Oh yeah!

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    What is your goal?

    If you are focusing heavily on OL, then your goal probably is explosiveness. Doing any kind of cardio immediately after lifting will most directly affect power gains and progress. It is better to either do your cardio on different days or divide your workouts into two sessions with lifting coming first and then taking a break and drinking a shake or a fluid with some electrolytes and doing cardio later in the day. If you absolutely have to do cardio after lifting, do HIIT but keep it brief.

    In terms of what lifts to do first.

    Lifts designed for explosiveness/power and lifts that use the most muscle groups and lifts that moves through the most planes should go first. Then next would be other compound lifts that don't recruit as many muscles, then assistance or isolation lifts you are doing for higher reps.

    Based on your exercise selection you could roughly say.

    1. Snatch
    2. Clean
    3. Squat
    4. Push Press
    5. Deadlift
    6. SLDL
    7. Bench
    8. Rows

    That's a ROUGH lift though. It really depends on what exercises you are doing on what days, what your goal is, and your set/rep scheme.

    Can you give a more detailed layout of your program?
     
  3. NoPain

    NoPain Green Belt

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    Ey thx for responding . My goal is like you said to get more explosive power , mostly for mma and grappling. And the exercises i posted are not what i do on one day , i was wondering for example what exercises i should do monday , wednesday , friday . Rest of the week i focus on mma and boxing.


    thanks
     
  4. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Here's some routines that might fit with your goals/doing the olympic lifts. Even if they don't, I think they're worth looking at.

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/42802267-post4.html
    WFW Program 2005
    Catalyst Athletics: Olympic Weightlifting, Strength Training, Athletic Training, Fitness, Nutrition :The Performance Menu - Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Los Altos, San Jose, California
    The wendler 5/3/1 also can incoporate olympic lifts, and explosive work. There's also the Bill Starr 5x5 (there are many versions, or routines called the Bill Starr 5x5).

    Also, the first link has some ideas of what you could do for conditioning at the end of a strength workout. If you're wanting to do signifcantly more, or steady state cardio, it'd be best to that at a different time if at all possible. In which case you'd gradually increase the volume/frequency/intensity of the added cardio workouts until it's at the appropriate volume/frequency/intensity for your goals (while fitting with the rest of your routine.

    *EDIT*
    Make sure you read the bit in the FAQ about power and explosiveness if you haven't already. And same goes with the rest of the FAQ too.
     
  5. LZD

    LZD Purple Belt

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    You could do conditioning exercises after your workout, like the ones Glen Pendlay suggests. They might not be what you're thinking of but perhaps worth a look anyway. Here's a link to the post itself, on page 1 of the FAQ:
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/strength-power-faq-v2-0-a-1339105/#post42802267

    Just as a side note, do you think the conditioning exercises I just linked above, for example walking lunges, freestyle barbell complexes, log loading, tire flipping, etc, would effect strength/power gains if done immediately after a workout? If so to what extent?

    ...they certainly raise the heart-rate a lot..
     
  6. PowerHungry

    PowerHungry Oh yeah!

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    It would depend upon a variety of factors (the individual's work capacity, the duration of the PWO cardio, the duration and intensity of the lifting session, the intensity ie the load on the lunges or the weight of the tire or the load used in the complexes, etc.)

    Ascendant (and I'm sure others can chime in with references to articles) at one time said that, given the choice between cardio immediately before lifting or cardio immediately after lifting and LSD vs. HIIT, that HIIT done PWO was the best in terms of EPOC and at burning fat while maintaining muscle.

    I'm not up to snuff on all my reading at the moment so I can't provide a basis for this answer, but I'd have to think that yes it would compromise strength and power gains. Perhaps, not significantly, but somewhat. HIIT, plyometrics, and complexes are very taxing on the CNS. If done PWO, they might improve your anaerobic conditioning but at the expense of some strength and power.

    Again withOUT a strong backing for this answer, I'd have to think the best course will always be to take a break between lifting and cardio. It could be as short as 15 minutes, as long as you rehydrate and eat a little something (nothing heavy).
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  7. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Whether EPOC is any greater from intervals compared to steady state is debatable...not that I'm interested in debating it.
     
  8. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy White Belt

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    What about doing kicboxing class before or after weightlifting? On some days I will have to do this so which option would be better?

    Will me doing kickboxing befor or after weigthlifting affect my strength gains?
     
  9. CRZA

    CRZA Purple Belt

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    Do kickboxing AFTER your strenght session.
    If you do it before, your strenght will be shit. Try it and see if it works.
     
  10. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy White Belt

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    And kbox (cardio) shouldn't have any effect on my muscles after lifting?

    Iknow it probably sounds silly, but I'm worried my muscles won't recover and grow properly if I do kox after lifting.
     
  11. rtfm

    rtfm White Belt

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    EZA might be able to suggest something for you since your training for MMA.

    Zatsiorsky & Kraemer's book "Science and Practice of Strength Training" covers this topic and the consensus in the book is that there are trade offs, no surprise there. The two techniques they mention are linear periodization and non-linear periodization. There is plenty on Google on these topics.

    I personally wouldn't do anything stressful after doing a lot of heavy lifting at least not within a couple of hours and I definitely wouldn't do any Complexes or interval training before doing any heavy lifting, I'd be screwed.

    If you're already doing a lot of MMA work you are probably getting a fair bit of cardio work. I have always been able to squeeze in some LSD somewhere but if you want to do some hard circuits then that will impact your other training so it's time to get yourself a good coach that's done this sort of thing before.
     

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