Circling The Arguments (SCO thread v. 32)

[hillelslovak87]

The economy is kicking ass.

FACT


The wall is being built.

FACT



But please, feel free to write another 4 paragraphs denying reality.

It's obvious that you, of all posters here, would not care for longterm policy effects. It's also obvious you don't know the difference between a fence and a wall. But then again, you parrot the bullshit from a man who thinks wheels are new innovations.

 

[MikeMcMann]

"observing" is not a synonym for "spying" or "surveiling". That's because "spying" and "surveilling" are always done without the knowledge of the observed.

There is no difference between "spying" and "surveilling" that I am aware of.

Yes but don't use your limited awareness as the barometer.

You could say all spying involves surveillance but not all surveillance involves spying.

Even Trump is well aware of the perception difference. Thus why he uses spying.

Spying GENERALLY is what is done on foreign entities or in an extra judicial way.

Surveillance is generally done within spying but when done on nationals involves oversight and is within very strict confines.

Trump and Barr use the word spying very deliberately. Trump isn't even trying to hide that he thinks what happened to him and his campaign was 'illegal' and thus 'spying'. That is why he does not say 'illegal spying' general and just 'spying' as spying suffices based on common parlance and he knows what it intonates.

 

[bobgeese]

His role against ISIS is like the busboy washing the dishes and cleaning up the kitchen after service. You, just like him, are looking to scoop up every bit of credit even if it belongs to someone else.

Sorry, this is just wrong.

First and foremost, he stopped running guns into the hands of various groups working alongside Isis, groups that the Obama administration knew full well were jihadists themselves and regularly would disband and join ranks with isis. (Btw, I have a long, sourced post detailing this if you’re actually interested on understanding the above, just ask).


Second, Trump at times doubled the number of bombs dropped on these areas. Hmm, I wonder why Obama didn’t bomb the shit out of them. Oh wait.... read the paragraph above.


Lastly, look at the results.

 

[bobgeese]

Gutting regulations to drive profits at any cost sure is putting a lot of confidence in the business community.

The “buisiness community” never called and threatened to kick my buisiness’s door in.

The EPA did.

They get no sympathy from me.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

No, there is such thing as illegal surveillance. Many cases fall apart over authorities not following proper protocol when it comes to surveillance.

I don't know why people are hung up on the terms. All that matters is if the right to run surveillance on Trump's campaign was granted under proper procedure. Whether you call it spying or surveillance means fuck all.

Will be nice when we can all see the evidence and make an informed decision.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The issue with that specific term for those on the left is that it forces them to acknowledge former President Obama authorized the use of our national security apparatus to do something as petty as spy on his political opposition.

On what evidence are you basing this assertion? If any President is willing to break the law to further his own goals it's Trump.

 

[bobgeese]

It's obvious that you, of all posters here, would not care for longterm policy effects. It's also obvious you don't know the difference between a fence and a wall. But then again, you parrot the bullshit from a man who thinks wheels are new innovations.

30ft tall,
Steel,
Barbed wire.


That’s as much a fence as Elizabeth Warren is an Indian...





PS, that is what border experts requested, I’m fine with that. It has nothing to do with Trump.

 

[hillelslovak87]

30ft tall,
Steel,
Barbed wire.


That’s as much a fence as Elizabeth Warren is an Indian...





PS, that is what border experts requested, I’m fine with that. It has nothing to do with Trump.

It can be 100 feet tall, you're still too stupid to know the difference between a wall and a fence. You're also too dishonest to admit that this is not at all what Trump promised for years, nor the manner in which he promised it would be built and paid for.

 

[bobgeese]

It can be 100 feet tall, you're still too stupid to know the difference between a wall and a fence. You're also too dishonest to admit that this is not at all what Trump promised for years, nor the manner in which he promised it would be built and paid for.

I don’t care about trumps, or any candidates campaign promises.


I care about border security.



PS, believing campaign promises?




Did you really think Bernie was gonna hand out 17 trillion dollars worth of free shit?

You probably did.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I don’t care about trumps, or any candidates campaign promises.


I care about border security.



PS, believing campaign promises?




Did you really think Bernie was gonna hand out 17 trillion dollars worth of free shit?

You probably did.

He continued to make claims about the wall well after he was president. You know that, and still play this little coy game about him and the wall, as if it didn't play into your vote for him.

If you cared about border security, you would note how much of a retard Trump is for rejecting a massive 40bil package for DHS with 20.1bil towards the border. There's a reason nobody but retards like Trump and Herman Cain ever bothered talking about a dumbass wall. Meanwhile, our immigration courts are choked while he could increase their scale, he cut off key aid to nations, exacerbating the problem, has told CBP agents to break the law because they could be pardoned, and now the admin doesn't even want legal immigrants, while Trump and you guys insisted we need immigration, but people need to do it the right way.

The shitty policy of regnant buffoons like Stephen Miller are what put us in this situation. If you cared about the border, you wouldn't cock gobble these idiots and their short sighted, low brow ideas.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You are truly is tin foil hat territory.

Trumps campaign was spied on, it’s not even debatable. That is why both the AG and IG are Investigating it.

And you somehow have the conclusion to those investigations before they're over.

 

[bobgeese]

He continued to make claims about the wall well after he was president. You know that, and still play this little coy game about him and the wall, as if it didn't play into your vote for him.

If you cared about border security, you would note how much of a retard Trump is for rejecting a massive 40bil package for DHS with 20.1bil towards the border. There's a reason nobody but retards like Trump and Herman Cain ever bothered talking about a dumbass wall. Meanwhile, our immigration courts are choked while he could increase their scale, he cut off key aid to nations, exacerbating the problem, has told CBP agents to break the law because they could be pardoned, and now the admin doesn't even want legal immigrants, while Trump and you guys insisted we need immigration, but people need to do it the right way.

The shitty policy of regnant buffoons like Stephen Miller are what put us in this situation. If you cared about the border, you wouldn't cock gobble these idiots and their short sighted, low brow ideas.

So, another 3 paragraphs restating what you been attempting to defend since 5am.

You were wrong every time. So, instead of continuing to try educating you, I’ll just quote stupid shit you’ve said so everyone knows your opinion is worthless.

Hmm, let’s take Flynn, here’s what you wrote regarding him.




“If there was ever anyone who deserved to hang for treason, it's one of Trump's best people.”
-hillisadumbass





I’m sure those treason charges are coming any day now...

 

[bobgeese]

And you somehow have the conclusion to those investigations before they're over.

Let’s see how my past predictions have stacked up...



Who was the first person on this site to identify the spy?


Hint,

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I don’t care about trumps, or any candidates campaign promises.


I care about border security.



PS, believing campaign promises?




Did you really think Bernie was gonna hand out 17 trillion dollars worth of free shit?

You probably did.

You don't care about Trump?

 

[bobgeese]

You don't care about Trump?

Nope, he’s a billionaire who I’m certain doesn’t give a shit about me. Btw... Don’t kid yourself thinking any politician cares about you.

He wasn’t my primary pick. However, I’m a partisan, and right now he’s team captain.

 

[waiguoren]

You could say all spying involves surveillance but not all surveillance involves spying.

You could say that. I wouldn't say that.

Even Trump is well aware of the perception difference. Thus why he uses spying.

Of course. All effective communicators favor some words over their synonyms in order to elicit emotional reactions among their audiences.

Spying GENERALLY is what is done on foreign entities or in an extra judicial way.

In a legal context, yes. In common usage, no. This leads to your strongest argument, though:

Barr is a career lawyer and in a testimony before Congress he should be using the legal parlance rather than the common parlance. His choice of the latter in a way that perfectly accords with Trump's bombast indicates that Barr might be sacrificing some of his integrity in the interest of his career.

Surveillance is generally done within spying but when done on nationals involves oversight and is within very strict confines.

I don't agree. I think the 99% approval rate for FISC applications is evidence to the contrary.

Trump and Barr use the word spying very deliberately. Trump isn't even trying to hide that he thinks what happened to him and his campaign was 'illegal' and thus 'spying'. That is why he does not say 'illegal spying' general and just 'spying' as spying suffices based on common parlance and he knows what it intonates.

Of course. All effective communicators favor some words over their synonyms in order to elicit emotional reactions among their audiences.

 

[andnowweknow]

Nope, he’s a billionaire who I’m certain doesn’t give a shit about me. Btw... Don’t kid yourself thinking any politician cares about you.

He wasn’t my primary pick. However, I’m a partisan, and right now he’s team captain.

"All politicians lie, not just Trump!"

The equations are real!

 

[waiguoren]

He wasn’t my primary pick. However, I’m a partisan, and right now he’s team captain.

I respect you for acknowledging this about yourself. So many posters can't admit that or even openly deny it (including one whose name sounds similar to "Black Pea Cabbage".

 

[waiguoren]

How the U.S. media failed in Russiagate

by Michael Tracey

Many of the journalists who pushed the Trump-Russia theory were also the ones responsible for the Iraq WMD fiasco


....


Take, for instance, Jonathan Chait. One of the country’s preeminent liberal opinion writers, Chait rose to national notoriety when he wrote an October 2002 cover story in The New Republic magazine which made the case for why liberals should support Bush’s war. Giving the Iraq misadventure the appearance of bipartisan credibility was crucial, and so it’s no overstatement to say that Chait was among the writers most personally responsible for fostering the political climate which created the conditions for invasion. Chait chastised liberals as being "blinded by their hatred of George W. Bush" and failing to recognize that "America's prospective war with Iraq isn't merely defensible. It's defensible on explicitly liberal grounds." Unsurprisingly, prominent Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Joe Biden–the latter of whom is currently leading polls for the party’s 2020 presidential nomination–ultimately voted in favor of the war, invoking rationale similar to that outlined by Chait.

Chait later admitted “mistakes” with respect to his pro-war boosterism, but this epic failure never impeded him from rising through the ranks of media respectability. Rather, his reach only grew–the perverse dynamic that characterizes all of elite US media, where the worst journalistic offenders are not only go unpunished, but are rewarded with greater power and influence. This came to its logical conclusion in July 2018 when Chait published another incendiary cover story, this time for New York magazine, which alleged that Donald Trump had been colluding with Russia since 1987. Yes, according to Chait, the conspiracy was so monumental in scale that it literally went back several decades. Chait’s theory was laughable at the time, and looks even more so now. But because he has never been held accountable for any of his past grave offenses, Chait has had the audacity to “double down” and insist that he was actually proven right about his crackpot Trump fantasy. It’s got to be one of the most shocking exercises in journalistic self-humiliation ever.

That Chait is even in the position to be making such preposterous claims again speaks to the fundamental irrationality of the US journalism industry: the more catastrophic your wrongdoings, the more swiftly you ascend up the ladder of elite prestige. Another illustrative example...

http://www.newindianexpress.com/opi...he-us-media-failed-in-russiagate-1964457.html

 

[hillelslovak87]

So, another 3 paragraphs restating what you been attempting to defend since 5am.

You were wrong every time. So, instead of continuing to try educating you, I’ll just quote stupid shit you’ve said so everyone knows your opinion is worthless.

Hmm, let’s take Flynn, here’s what you wrote regarding him.




“If there was ever anyone who deserved to hang for treason, it's one of Trump's best people.”
-hillisadumbass





I’m sure those treason charges are coming any day now...

Simply saying you're right, over and over again is not convincing, Bob. Flynn ratted on others, as we know, that is why charges aren't coming. Jesus, man.