Chuck was known for having god tier TDD, but Rampage took him down in Pride?

[NoBiasJustMMA]

chuck was beaten up badly in that fight; by the time he was taken down (and held down, in the second round), he was fatigued from the beatdown.

I remember during the first round, you can hear hackleman tell him to give up the guard and go to half-guard from the bottom. bas and perry questioned it, and two seconds later, chuck was on his feet. he's the hardest guy to hold down.... until he has been beaten down. just like randy did in the third round of their first fight

It was good advice from Hackleman, Rampage was working the hell out of his body on the ground.

 

[Mr. Hammer]

Wow. You make it really clear that you haven't been watching MMA long, i'm gonna guess 4 years or less.

You're being generous imo. It's an odd thing how newer fans so arrogantly trash the fighters who were big before they got into the sport. I'm not sure who they think they're impressing.

 

[Papa Shaun]

I just wonder if Chuck didn't overlook Rampage a bit in the first fight. Chuck witnessed Bustamante push Rampage to the limit, and could have possibly come away with the decision. Chuck and the UFC brass obviously had Wand on their minds, so I just wonder if Chuck thought Rampage would crumple like Overeem did in the 1st round???

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

You're being generous imo. It's an odd thing how newer fans so arrogantly trash the fighters who were big before they got into the sport. I'm not sure who they think they're impressing.

I was, I just didn't want him to come back saying something like "na uh, I started watching in 2009" but I doubt he's been following the sport for more than a year or two.

I don't get it either, I mean I first watched MMA in the early to mid 90s a few times at my friends house on VHS but I didn't get really into it till like 2001-2002ish, there were great fighters before my time; I didn't trash them I educated myself on how everyone was viewed back before I watched so I knew what I was talking about and didn't make an ass of myself.

 

[pclanadmin2]

just like frankie edgar just had bj's number, rampage had chuck's. simple as that.

 

[Duke Nightmare]

Why is it that so many people say Rampage had Chuck's number? Who did Chuck beat that Rampage couldn't? Why can't Rampage just be the better fighter?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Why is it that so many people say Rampage had Chuck's number? Who did Chuck beat that Rampage couldn't? Why can't Rampage just be the better fighter?

I agree, in fact I don't think Rampage would have lost to Couture and IMO Liddell would have gotten KOed by a 2003-2005 Wanderlei as well. I mean Liddell won when they fought but Wanderlei dropped Liddell and was closer to getting a finish, with the smaller fighting area, corners and rules that pride had Liddell would have been put to sleep too.

 

[MCS]

Are you talking to yourself? In no way did Sonnen do better against Anderson than Weidman did against Anderson, how is getting submitted and finished better than winning all aspects of a fight then finishing your opponent early in round 2?

In the first fight Weidman took Anderson down easily in the first round landed hard GnP, rocked him on the ground had 2 submission attempts and even clowned Anderson back and dodged his punches then KOed him shortly in the next round.

In the next fight Weidman dropped Anderson in the clinch, nearly finished him on the ground and then checked two hard leg kicks from Anderson in round two with the second one breaking Anderson's leg, a knee spike is intended to cause damage and pain to your opponent; I think it did that but to a level no one expected, it still doesn't change the fact that Weidman may have gotten 2 10-8 first rounds against Anderson before finishing him in the second round twice.

If you look at all 4 fights, Sonnen is beating up Silva for a larger amount of time. He scored 3 10-8 rounds in 7 rounds of fighting, while there wasn't a feeling out process or a neutral ground at any point of those 2 fights. Sonnen was beating him up and made him defend and even break the rules to stay on his feet. I think he defended 1 takedown in their 2nd fight without grabbing the shorts.

Now if you look at the first Silva/Weidman fight, those strikes were fairly close in the 1st round, even when Anderson was goofing around. in the 2nd round, Chris got his TD's stuffed. In their 2nd fight, Weidman whoops his ass for the 1st round, then they stand for a minute or less and a freak injury occurs (plus, Chris was off-balance when he checked the kick that broke Silva's shin, while the 1st checked kick hit Weidman's thigh).

Silva is a great finisher, as said, he won based on 2 key moments in those Sonnen fights, but up until the finishes in their respective fights combined, Sonnen was more dominant.

 

[Kozbot]

Chuck was already on his heels from getting outstruck and wasn't expecting the TD anyway

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

If you look at all 4 fights, Sonnen is beating up Silva for a larger amount of time. He scored 3 10-8 rounds in 7 rounds of fighting, while there wasn't a feeling out process or a neutral ground at any point of those 2 fights. Sonnen was beating him up and made him defend and even break the rules to stay on his feet. I think he defended 1 takedown in their 2nd fight without grabbing the shorts.

Now if you look at the first Silva/Weidman fight, those strikes were fairly close in the 1st round, even when Anderson was goofing around. in the 2nd round, Chris got his TD's stuffed. In their 2nd fight, Weidman whoops his ass for the 1st round, then they stand for a minute or less and a freak injury occurs (plus, Chris was off-balance when he checked the kick that broke Silva's shin, while the 1st checked kick hit Weidman's thigh).

Silva is a great finisher, as said, he won based on 2 key moments in those Sonnen fights, but up until the finishes in their respective fights combined, Sonnen was more dominant.

I don't really take much stock in the first fight, Sonnen cheated(and not much from the second fight either really due to 20+ seconds of shorts grabbing). Since when is having to win a decision better than a guy that doesn't need more than 2 rounds to show that he is better than his opponent and finish him? Twice no less. Weidman threatened to finish Anderson multiple times in each fight, in the first fight he rocked him on the ground and then went for 2 submissions in the first round then he KOed him in the second.

In the second fight Weidman again threatened to finish Anderson, this time in the clinch which is one of Anderson's strongest areas, then nearly finished him with GnP and then checked 2 leg kicks in round two with knee spikes, the second one breaking Anderson's leg.

I do agree that Anderson had to resort to cheating in the second fight and it would have been nice to see a fight between the two where neither fighter cheated but Weidman did way way better against Anderson than Sonnen did, even he would tell you that.

 

[MCS]

I don't really take much stock in the first fight, Sonnen cheated. Since when is having to win a decision better than a guy that doesn't need more than 2 rounds to show that he is better than his opponent and finish him? Twice no less. Weidman threatened to finish Anderson multiple times in each fight, in the first fight he rocked him on the ground and then went for 2 submissions in the first round then he KOed him in the second.

In the second fight Weidman again threatened to finish Anderson, this time in the clinch which is one of Anderson's strongest areas, then nearly finished him with GnP and then checked 2 leg kicks in round two with knee spikes, the second one breaking Anderson's leg.

I do agree that Anderson had to resort to cheating in the second fight and it would have been nice to see a fight between the two where neither fighter cheated but Weidman did way way better against Anderson than Sonnen did, even he would tell you that.

I don't agree that Silva was hurt from that GnP in the 1st Weidman fight, nor were the sub attempts close (Sonnen's arm-triangle looked closer, but wasn't a near finish, either).

Agree that the combination of Silva looking hurt and Sonnen's uber levels played a part, but that's also another story. What happened matters.

IMO, the first Weidman fight wasn't definitive in regards to a rematch, and ironically "leave no doubt" ended with the 2nd broken shin from a check in UFC history. That, and Chris looking great in the first round of their rematch, are my thoughts on the Weidman fights, while Sonnen mounting Silva in their rematch was more of an indication of what would likely follow.

And then the backfist happened, plus the shorts grabbing. And in the 1st fight, the triangle happened. I'd favor Sonnen if they would fight again. I think Sonnen somehow managed to throw those fights away.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I don't agree that Silva was hurt from that GnP in the 1st Weidman fight, nor were the sub attempts close (Sonnen's arm-triangle looked closer, but wasn't a near finish, either).

Agree that the combination of Silva looking hurt and Sonnen's uber levels played a part, but that's also another story. What happened matters.

IMO, the first Weidman fight wasn't definitive in regards to a rematch, and ironically "leave no doubt" ended with the 2nd broken shin from a check in UFC history. That, and Chris looking great in the first round of their rematch, are my thoughts on the Weidman fights, while Sonnen mounting Silva in their rematch was more of an indication of what would likely follow.

And then the backfist happened. And in the 1st fight, the triangle happened. I'd favor Sonnen if they would fight again. I think Sonnen somehow managed to throw those fights away.

Anderson's eyes roll back from GnP which is why Weidman went for the submissions there are gifs of his eyes rolling back in his head from the GnP in the first round of the first fight. The submissions weren't that close but a submission attempt is a threat of finishing so is a guys eyes rolling back in his head, had that happened while standing he would have gotten knocked down.

Those two factors make it matter a lot less, however in the first round of the rematch Sonnen was able to have a similar round to most of the rounds in the first fight.

I agree but Sonnen's thrown lots of fights away in his career, it's one of the major things he's known for, he makes boneheaded moves in fights and now that Anderson isn't champion and has taken a lot more head trauma in his two fights with Wiedman he would have a great chance of beating him in a 3 round fight.

 

[Mr. Hammer]

Why is it that so many people say Rampage had Chuck's number? Who did Chuck beat that Rampage couldn't? Why can't Rampage just be the better fighter?

This is something I've wondered for a while. Yesterday somebody even compared Rampage/Liddell to Hallman/Hughes, as if Rampage was just a massive over-acheiver both Liddell fights and had no business winning either.

But yeah like you said, Rampage would have beaten everybody Chuck beat. Even with that hypothetical out of the way Rampage still has a more storied career with better victories than Chuck Liddell.

 

[Mikeyz]

Rampage just had Chuck's number.

What he said.

 

[MCS]

Anderson's eyes roll back from GnP which is why Weidman went for the submissions there are gifs of his eyes rolling back in his head from the GnP in the first round of the first fight. The submissions weren't that close but a submission attempt is a threat of finishing so is a guys eyes rolling back in his head, had that happened while standing he would have gotten knocked down.

Those two factors make it matter a lot less, however in the first round of the rematch Sonnen was able to have a similar round to most of the rounds in the first fight.

I agree but Sonnen's thrown lots of fights away in his career, it's one of the major things he's known for, he makes boneheaded moves in fights and now that Anderson isn't champion and has taken a lot more head trauma in his two fights with Wiedman he would have a great chance of beating him in a 3 round fight.

haven't seen the gif, can't comment.

it's true that Sonnen has a tendency to do so. that's a good point which I overlooked, since it was quite dumbfounding to see him make two rookie mistakes in between doing work. it actually makes me favor Sonnen less if they would meet again. Agree that he'd have a better chance in a 3-round fight, Sonnen doesn't have stopping power.

 

[Mr. Hammer]

I don't really take much stock in the first fight, Sonnen cheated(and not much from the second fight either really due to 20+ seconds of shorts grabbing). Since when is having to win a decision better than a guy that doesn't need more than 2 rounds to show that he is better than his opponent and finish him? Twice no less. Weidman threatened to finish Anderson multiple times in each fight, in the first fight he rocked him on the ground and then went for 2 submissions in the first round then he KOed him in the second.

In the second fight Weidman again threatened to finish Anderson, this time in the clinch which is one of Anderson's strongest areas, then nearly finished him with GnP and then checked 2 leg kicks in round two with knee spikes, the second one breaking Anderson's leg.

I do agree that Anderson had to resort to cheating in the second fight and it would have been nice to see a fight between the two where neither fighter cheated but Weidman did way way better against Anderson than Sonnen did, even he would tell you that.

I find it truly remarkable that someone is actually arguing that Sonnen did better vs Silva than Weidman.

 

[weed]

Rampage raped him in Pride.

 

[weed]

shit, Mezger & Undereem were doing pretty well too.

 

[thechoice2]

I just wonder if Chuck didn't overlook Rampage a bit in the first fight. Chuck witnessed Bustamante push Rampage to the limit, and could have possibly come away with the decision. Chuck and the UFC brass obviously had Wand on their minds, so I just wonder if Chuck thought Rampage would crumple like Overeem did in the 1st round???

Same thing happened to Chuck when he fought Bustamante so I have no idea why he'd overlook Rampage for doing as good as he did against Bustamante.

 

[Stump]

It's not exactly uncommon, for example, Weidman/Silva. Not taking anything away from Weidman, or Silva, but many consider he got lucky both times, and Silva as a whole is a better fighter than Weidman... At least before the injury. Same with Chuck/Liddell.

Not true. Silva got beaten by a better fighter twice.