Chinese virus from a Wuhan laboratory?

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This is a scenario that CT nuts, anti government types and anti War machiners have been mewing about for decades.

even Vox wrote this a year ago
www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/2019/3/20/18260669/deadly-pathogens-escape-lab-smallpox-bird-flu
Yeah, I've always been on the CT side with this. There's no perfect system, everything that can go wrong will go wrong someday so it was a mathematical inevitability that these viruses would escape the lab someday. I'm not saying it's 100% lab made, though, I don't know!
 
Do you really think so? The study author is quoted saying when they started 'it was clear almost overnight this was not manmade'. As for the 'probable', 'likely' wording etc that's just typical scientific writing, due to the epistemological underpinnings of science. We never actually prove anything, so arguably it isn't correct to use the verb to be without a modifier (e.g. 'likely') when describing study findings.

There wouldn't be a way to definitively show this wasn't man made, its one of those prove a negative situations. What they are saying is that many of the parts being used are unknown, which would make it really unlikely.

Its like if you got a weird vegetable in China and wanted to figure out if it is GMO or a new natural species. If there are genes very similar to known ones from jellyfish, and bacteria, it is likely that it was a GMO. However if the new genes in it are vegetable origin but not related to known species, it is really unlikely it is GMO, but not impossible:
It would require the Chinese scientists to have 1) found new animal/plant species the rest of science didn't know of that were not closely related to anything else, 2) have kept them a secret before they knew there was anything useful in them, and 3) Put them together in ways that just aren't used in genetic modification science yet.

Going back to virus, scientists in China and elsewhere work full time to find new novel Coronaviruses + other potentially zoonotic disease causing virurses and sequence their genes, and they've published on thousands. Very unlikely the components in SARS-CoV-2 would be novel to us if it was manmade unless they've been keeping a massive research effort secret from the world somehow. It's giving mad scientists way too much credit, we know how advanced the gain-of-function research was in China as just a couple years ago the leader of work in the field was in the US.

I'm not some expert... I just don't know. Hard to be an armchair virologist, and I don't trust any experts at the moment.
 
I don’t think they are saying it was man made in a lab but experimented with in a lab without proper sanitization procedures that spread to wet market a few bocks away.

I think people are mixing "it came from a lab" with "it was made in lab". It's very possible from the video I posted the Chinese discovered a new virus in nature and brought it back to the lab to study it. Then with their know shity safety procedures it escape the lab.
 
Here's an important point that everyone, including me, have missed: There is no real evidence the virus came from the Wuhan Seafood market.

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Filippa Lentzos, biosecurity researcher at King’s College London, said while there is currently no proof for the lab accident theory, there is also “no real evidence” that the virus came from the wet market.

“For me, the pandemic origin is still an open question,” Lentzos said.

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But a study by a group of Chinese scientists published in The Lancet in January revealed that the first COVID-19 patient had no connection to Wuhan’s infamous animal market, and neither did 13 of the first 41 confirmed cases.


Japan Times
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...b-china-coronavirus-controversy/#.XptCGS-xXmo
 
I think people are mixing "it came from a lab" with "it was made in lab". It's very possible from the video I posted the Chinese discovered a new virus in nature and brought it back to the lab to study it. Then with their know shity safety procedures it escape the lab.
The media is making the strawman argument that claiming it might have come from the lab means it was man made.
 
Here's an important point that everyone, including me, have missed: There is no real evidence the virus came from the Wuhan Seafood market.

-
Filippa Lentzos, biosecurity researcher at King’s College London, said while there is currently no proof for the lab accident theory, there is also “no real evidence” that the virus came from the wet market.

“For me, the pandemic origin is still an open question,” Lentzos said.

-

But a study by a group of Chinese scientists published in The Lancet in January revealed that the first COVID-19 patient had no connection to Wuhan’s infamous animal market, and neither did 13 of the first 41 confirmed cases.


Japan Times
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...b-china-coronavirus-controversy/#.XptCGS-xXmo
I don't think that point is all that important because that study was based on people that were in the hospital for pneumonia. Most people that get the virus doesn't need to be hospitalized, so there's a very good chance that the first person to get it never went to the hospital.
 
The media is making the strawman argument that claiming it might have come from the lab means it was man made.

Yep. They did that from the beginning. They Crucified Cotton over it as did many posters in the WR.

Many had a knee jerk reaction to defend the CCP because they looked at them as a nemesis to Trump
 
I don't think that point is all that important because that study was based on people that were in the hospital for pneumonia. Most people that get the virus doesn't need to be hospitalized, so there's a very good chance that the first person to get it never went to the hospital.

Sure, but the hospital admitted cases is the only proof we have soo far.
 
It's evidence not proof. You're most likely not gonna get proof, just evidence and not a lo
Proof of the earliest infected persons. What are the odds that all the first people infected at the market had mild reactions, and only those infected outside had severe reactions necessitating hospital stay.
 
Proof of the earliest infected persons. What are the odds that all the first people infected at the market had mild reactions, and only those infected outside had severe reactions necessitating hospital stay.
That would be evidence that the virus originated at the market....which earlier you quoted an article that said there was no evidence it originated at the wet market.
 
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/co...pete-us-sources.amp?__twitter_impression=true



We shall see. Do you believe the original story, that it came from the wet markets? Or do you think that's a coverup story?

What exactly is the original story? I know it involves some bats being butchered in an open market which introduced the virus. My question: Was this a new virus and the bats passed it along? Or was this virus around a long time and it was passed to humans for the first time? The notion that it's an older virus and has been around doesn't make sense as it can't be the first time bats like that were butchered at the market. Whatever they are doing with live animals at the market I would guess they have been doing the same thing for hundreds of years.
 
What exactly is the original story? I know it involves some bats being butchered in an open market which introduced the virus. My question: Was this a new virus and the bats passed it along? Or was this virus around a long time and it was passed to humans for the first time? The notion that it's an older virus and has been around doesn't make sense as it can't be the first time bats like that were butchered at the market. Whatever they are doing with live animals at the market I would guess they have been doing the same thing for hundreds of years.

It is a new virus in that its the first time that it has been seen in humans, and the closest match to any other known virus is that of a bat coronavirus, which shows a 96% genetic similarity. The notion that it was passed through consumption of bats may have arisen from this understanding, however it is not thought to be the most likely scenario because the other two significant coronaviruses in humans are both transmitted through another animal host before they emerged as well adapted to humans. The mystery is in finding this animal, and this would really help demostrate the evolutionary path of the virus from start to human.
 
Here's an important point that everyone, including me, have missed: There is no real evidence the virus came from the Wuhan Seafood market.

-
Filippa Lentzos, biosecurity researcher at King’s College London, said while there is currently no proof for the lab accident theory, there is also “no real evidence” that the virus came from the wet market.

“For me, the pandemic origin is still an open question,” Lentzos said.

-

But a study by a group of Chinese scientists published in The Lancet in January revealed that the first COVID-19 patient had no connection to Wuhan’s infamous animal market, and neither did 13 of the first 41 confirmed cases.

I think that the sea market has been placed as the source because you have one of the earliest cases of a worker at the seafood market (10 dec) followed by a cluster of early cases around 20 dec, of people that had some connection to the market, with more people with a similar connection presenting at hosptial with similar symptoms. The earliest lab confirmed case (1 dec) had no connection to the market or the other cases that followed, and you then see a number of individual mystery pneumonia patients before the seafood market cluster.

A recent study has also discovered that the closest genetic relative to the bat coronavirus (closest genetic match to a known virus) that was seen in the samples analysed was in 4 people from the southern Guangdong region, and although there were variations of this profile with some mutations found in samples of a few people with connections to wuhan, it was not the predominant genetic variety observed in the samples attributed to wuhan (heres a decent newspaper summary)

At the moment, it seems like quite a complex scenario and it will take time before the actual source can be accurately pinpointed, so until then its a case of extrapolating theories from the evidence available.
 
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Agreed actually. This kind of thing was looming on the horizon for years now. If anything, pandemics are going to be more common and not less common and it's not shocking information at all that this was cooked up in a lab. Biological warfare research is a thing.
Agreed
If a pandemic started in Frederick, Md I would be extremely suspicious too, being so close to ft detrick.

Combined with the fact that we know they were working on that specific virus in Wuhan and the recent arrest of Harvard and CCP scientist working together, shouldn't be a terribly unreasonable theory.
 
That would be evidence that the virus originated at the market....which earlier you quoted an article that said there was no evidence it originated at the wet market.
The evidence would suggest the virus originated somewhere else, because according to the Chinese paper in the Lancet the earliest cases had no known direct links to the market.
 
The evidence would suggest the virus originated somewhere else, because according to the Chinese paper in the Lancet the earliest cases had no known direct links to the market.
Not exactly, it said the earliest case was a lab employee, and that 13 of the first 41 known cases had no direct links to the market....that suggests 28 of the first 41 cases did have a direct link to the market. 2/3 cases were directly linked to the market and it's very easily possible that the 13 that weren't could have came into contact with someone that was at the marked and contacted corona but were asymptomatic since we now know that individuals can transmit the virus without having any symptoms of it.
 
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