International Chinese Debt-Trap Diplomacy: Xi Jinping's Belt and Road Initiative Turns 10 Years Old

[KnightTemplar]

Not really true

Ww1 everybody was very nationalistic n eager to go to war. They just needed an event that would give them green light (like the assassination)

Ww2 was basically round 2 of ww1 with some unfinished business

Since then big powers realized world wars are very destructive (especially with today’s technology) n they rather settle their scores via proxy.

It’s like a game of poker where one side will call the bluff of the other n make them fold.

Americans are desperately trying to get rid of Assad, but that’s pretty much over at this point. They tried again the “gassing his own ppl narrative”, but it’s not gonna work. Russians are calling their bluff n USA will have to back off

I hope you're right.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Wonder where they got that playbook from.........

Wall Street

 

[Islam Imamate]

Question, what is the debt denominated in and who enforces it?

Came here to say that this was basically the English playbook for a while. Lend a bunch of money and when they default, colonize them. At least China isn't invading these countries so there's that. Shitty thing to do but hard to blame them when the countries that did it before not only got away with it but used this strategy to climb to and/or solidify their superpower status.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

They tried to take over my country club

Rat bastards

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

They tried to take over my country club

Rat bastards

 

[4daLuLZ]

China also doesn't fund destructive proxy wars or work to keep brutal incompetent dictators in power against the wishes of the countries people.

No, they keep all that in-house.

 

[squeezewax]

For a few yrs now i've believed that Islam was the biggest threat to Western society, however i think China is now.
Western countries know what is going on, do they not try to dissuade and advise these smaller countries and warn them about taking on so much debt? I suppose the temptation of so much money and infrastructure being built is just too much for them?

China have been building infrastructure for a while now in some African countries. They'll end up building military bases in some of these poorer countries around the world. And in the meantime America is preoccupied with Russia helping Trump in the election, Trump and a porno star, and anything else about Trump to try to satisfy their obsession with the man.

 

[ShinkanPo]

@adifighter86, look at what your ching chong overlords are doing.

Nah Duterte will stop the Chinese big time.

 

[ShinkanPo]

For a few yrs now i've believed that Islam was the biggest threat to Western society, however i think China is now.
Western countries know what is going on, do they not try to dissuade and advise these smaller countries and warn them about taking on so much debt? I suppose the temptation of so much money and infrastructure being built is just too much for them?

China have been building infrastructure for a while now in some African countries. They'll end up building military bases in some of these poorer countries around the world. And in the meantime America is preoccupied with Russia helping Trump in the election, Trump and a porno star, and anything else about Trump to try to satisfy their obsession with the man.

Islamist are to dumb to be a global threat in the long run they will be anihilated by any competent military that is motivated in stoping them. Provided the Chinese dont actually support Islamists againts the west.


The Muslims for a long time have been like the usefull idiots by Proxy nations.

Well atleast China is not really a backwards civilization if they suplants the west as the next tech power I guess humanity will be fine.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Ever heard of a little country called North Korea?

And Darfur,Cambodia and soon the Philippines.

 

[ElKarlo]

I agree this is a frightening path of neo-merchantilism, as well as neo colonialism. China does not have good intentions. This is only for the benefit of China, and at best it is neutral to others, and most likely detrimental. I was thinking of investing in Sri Lanka, as it is a good play on India. That was until I looked into it and basically CHina is the boss that will be calling all the shots there. Plus the debt burdens that CHina has placed on it.

I for one, have been buying as little as I can from China for the past 15 years or so. If you have a choice, exercise it, as someday there may be no options.

 

[Werdun]

China playing the long term game. Western nations are unable to counter this as our democratic societies have key people removed every couple of elections and plans are changing constantly. Politicians are looking at short term profits to get them elected.

 

[Rod1]

Honest question, what exactly is the issue with the debt being in Yuan, as opposed to e.g US Dollars or Euros?

Yuan isnt an international currency, Chinese banks or courts cant force banks all around the world to seize your cash and to force others not to cash your loans until you pay debtors.

See vulture bonds.

 

[Rod1]

China playing the long term game. Western nations are unable to counter this as our democratic societies have key people removed every couple of elections and plans are changing constantly. Politicians are looking at short term profits to get them elected.

http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2016/03/03/14-years-later-argentina-pays-paul-singer-4-75-billions/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sachs-of-financing-dictatorship-idUSKBN18P1Z5

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...3/apr/16/jamaica-decades-debt-damaging-future

The difference is that China is thinking on "Whats best for the country" Western countries are just thinking "Whats best for our shareholders".

 

[Rod1]

Looking at the list of third-world, pseudo-Democratic Asian-Pacific/African/Latin American countries who have signed the pact with the devil, no one can honestly say that they can see a revolutionary change in governments in those places in our life time. Even if there are opposition to the "Chinese friendship" in those places, the dissenting voices are small, weak, and holds no political power at all. Take Cambodia for example, Hun Sen has been in power for decades now, and have many more decades to go. We don't have to go

Im not quite familiar with the SEA experience but things can change quite fast in LatAm and Africa.

Unlike ODA from the West, Chinese investment money is particularly appealing to those third-world countries because it doesn't come with auxiliary demands of improving democracy, human rights, or environmental concerns. All Beijing ask from their "valued friends and allies" are what both sides agreed on the lucrative loan contract (at below market rates), and if the debt can't be paid, Beijing is more than willing to forgive millions of dollars worth of debt in exchange for one of many reasonable alternative solutions in the contract, which is usually collateral assets that means little to the debtee (at least for the moment), but is enormously important to Beijing's long game. In all likelihood, Beijing already had their eyes those assets long before they offered the loans in the first place.

Do you think Goldman Sachs asked the Venezuela government to improve anything? what about all the banana and anti-communist dictators that the west supported in LatAm?

Not to mention the economic guidelines the IMF asked for a lot of countries that were not really popular in the west to begin with and led to economic ruin in a lot of cases?

Beijing seems content of having said assets most likely because they really cant collect on the debt.

Its like claiming that banks that do asset forfeiture are more evil than banks who do student loans which cant be forgiven.

The West always collects, always, so it doesnt needs to take any asset at all.

Do you honestly think that Sri Lanka is in a worse position than Jamaica?

http://cepr.net/documents/publications/jamaica-debt-2013-06.pdf

Would rather surrender a port or two than pay tribute forever.

Usually, that gracious debt discount/forgiveness means an ownership stake in a "minor" uranium mine, or a natural gas pipeline, or a thousand square kilometer of "insignificant" patch of land along the borders, or just one of many sea ports, or a naval base, or to turn a blind eye in regional politics as China steal from their other neighbors.

Do you honestly think that countries that need to sell everything for cheap in order to get hard cash to service debt are better off?

Once something is in Chinese possession, they don't actually need to invade anyone to hold on to them. If - and this is giant if - a new anti-China government rise to power in those places, they would quickly find that wrestling back assets already in Chinese control to be harder than achieving lasting peace in the Middle East.

Oh, but you do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama

 

[Werdun]

http://jewishbusinessnews.com/2016/03/03/14-years-later-argentina-pays-paul-singer-4-75-billions/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...sachs-of-financing-dictatorship-idUSKBN18P1Z5

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...3/apr/16/jamaica-decades-debt-damaging-future

The difference is that China is thinking on "Whats best for the country" Western countries are just thinking "Whats best for our shareholders".

Countries cant think. Politicians think. Some think the best for their nation,others whats best for them etc.

 

[USA!USA!]

So is this China's fault or the countries who are defaulting?

 

[Rod1]

Countries cant think. Politicians think. Some think the best for their nation,others whats best for them etc.

Whats best for the nation isnt necesarily whats best for the people, the Western model has allowed Westerners to enjoy a very high quality of life.

 

[Werdun]

Whats best for the nation isnt necesarily whats best for the people, the Western model has allowed Westerners to enjoy a very high quality of life.

Indeed it has. Sadly: strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men create rough times, rough times create strong men.. west is falling, while we are arguing gender politics, cuddling immigrants and beating each other with bike locks others are getting stronger and more dynamic.

 

[Islam Imamate]

For a few yrs now i've believed that Islam was the biggest threat to Western society, however i think China is now.
Western countries know what is going on, do they not try to dissuade and advise these smaller countries and warn them about taking on so much debt? I suppose the temptation of so much money and infrastructure being built is just too much for them?

China have been building infrastructure for a while now in some African countries. They'll end up building military bases in some of these poorer countries around the world. And in the meantime America is preoccupied with Russia helping Trump in the election, Trump and a porno star, and anything else about Trump to try to satisfy their obsession with the man.

Lol, what are they supposed to say? "You are only allowed to drown in Western debt, no Oriental debt for you!"

The Chinese are simply taking a page or two out of the Western playbook except without the explicit colonialism. If the West complained the hypocrisy would be obvious to the third world and they'd still end up taking the loans.