China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

[Teppodama]

@TemujinKhan

https://thewire.in/society/chinas-social-credit-system-puts-people-pressure-model-citizens

Reaping rewards for ‘good deeds’

One shared focus of the country’s existing pilot schemes is to generate a standardised reward and punishment system based on a citizen’s credit score.

Being a “good citizen” is well rewarded. In some regions, citizens with high social credit scores can enjoy free gym facilities, cheaper public transport, and shorter wait times in hospitals. Those with low scores, on the other hand, may face restrictions to their travel and public service access.Most pilot cities have used a points system, whereby everyone starts off with a baseline of 100 points. Citizens can earn bonus points up to the value of 200 by performing “good deeds”, such as engaging in charity work or separating and recycling rubbish. In Suzhou city, for example, one can earn six points for donating blood.

At this stage, scores are connected to a citizen’s identification card number. But the Chinese internet court has proposed an online identification system connected to social media accounts.

So, rewards for "good behavior". Better the score, better the rewards. I just bet we can find a creditable source where it says that one way to earn some pretty decent points is informing on a fellow citizen that is questioning the government, reading blacklisted literature, listening to blacklisted music, etc...

hmmm, faintly reminiscent of the Gestapo, The Stasi, The NKVD...

 

[TemujinKhan]

It's not just the most obvious issue of restrictions on travel or accommodations, it's also the restrictions on jobs or the ability to go to university among many of the apparent negative consequences of getting "blacklisted".

Eventually it will be the restriction of the ability to buy or sell, or the ability to to rent. Will it also affect your ability to receive timely medical care?

Again though, why are they being prevented from entering certain jobs? Can you show me some case studies? If you commit certain crimes in the US or any country you can't get certain jobs, nor can you travel. In some states you commit 3 crimes and they give you life in prison.

In nations with affirmative action like the US, people of certain ethnicities can't go to certain schools because of their skin color. And thats not even due to any type of infraction or bad behaviour, but for simply being what they are born as. That sounds alot more dystopian to me.

You think the big bad chinaman is going to bring you you're dystopian future? Dude you're already in it.

 

[brothir]

They should not bar people with bad social credit from planes or trains. That would be the wrong thing to do.

 

[TemujinKhan]

@TemujinKhan

https://thewire.in/society/chinas-social-credit-system-puts-people-pressure-model-citizens


So, rewards for "good behavior". Better the score, better the rewards. I just bet we can find a creditable source where it says that one way to earn some pretty decent points is informing on a fellow citizen that is questioning the government, reading blacklisted literature, listening to blacklisted music, etc...

hmmm, faintly reminiscent of the Gestapo, The Stasi, The NKVD...

It says nothing there of informing on citizens gaining you points, if you're going to speculate then do so but don't quote an article then inject your own speculation as if thats the content of the actual article.

The article states: good scores are given to those who engage in charitable work, recycling, cleaning up pollution etc. sounds decent to me. Isn't China polluted as fuck? bout time they give people incentive to clean shit up.

Stop thinking these people are just like westerners, they do shit they're own way and always have.

 

[Teppodama]

Again though, why are they being prevented from entering certain jobs? Can you show me some case studies? If you commit certain crimes in the US or any country you can't get certain jobs, nor can you travel. In some states you commit 3 crimes and they give you life in prison.

There is a difference between restrictions based on criminal activity that has been adjudicated in court and restrictions to jobs based on a nebulous credit score system that could see the same outcome for jaywalking, saying the wrong thing about the government, etc.. If you can't see that difference or simply don't understand it then I honestly feel bad for you.

In nations with affirmative action like the US, people of certain ethnicities can't go to certain schools because of their skin color. And thats not even due to any type of infraction or bad behaviour, but for simply being what they are born as. That sounds alot more dystopian to me.

Please give me an example of one of these US schools that you can't go to because of your skin color?

You think the big bad chinaman is going to bring you you're dystopian future? Dude you're already in it.

Oh, I completely agree we are in the midst of our own developing dystopian future here in the US. We're just going about it in a different manner but will very likely end up at the same destination.

 

[uppercutbus]

They should not bar people with bad social credit from planes or trains.

what about automobiles?

 

[SleepyBoy]

This system is truly terrifying.
The endless possibilities of brutal tyranny is beyond scary.

I couldn't bear to live in such a society

 

[TemujinKhan]

There is a difference between restrictions based on criminal activity that has been adjudicated in court and restrictions to jobs based on a nebulous credit score system that could see the same outcome for jaywalking, saying the wrong thing about the government, etc.. If you can't see that difference or simply don't understand it then I honestly feel bad for you.


Please give me an example of one of these US schools that you can't go to because of your skin color?


Oh, I completely agree we are in the midst of our own developing dystopian future here in the US. We're just going about it in a different manner but will very likely end up at the same destination.

First point: Source? You're stating that jay walking in China can prevent you from getting certain jobs. 100% blind speculation, and if you don't know the difference between providing real world evidence and telling stories and speculating then I feel bad for you too.

Second point: While no school completely prevents entry based on race, they stack the odds against certain races to such a high degree that its statistically nearly impossible and requires the person to be in such a small percentile. Like asian students (including Chinese-Americans, how ironic) applying for ivy league schools would have to outperfrom their peers of other races by 500 points and in some schools even that is not enought, they simply won't accept asian-americans. This can be called nothing but institutional racism, by definition it is institutional racism. Thats not speculation, thats facts.

 

[Teppodama]

First point: Source? You're stating that jay walking in China can prevent you from getting certain jobs. 100% blind speculation, and if you don't know the difference between providing real world evidence and telling stories and speculating then I feel bad for you too.

One of the things that can reduce your social score as reported by one of the article sources I previously listed was jay walking. Hence, sufficient incidents of jaywalking could indeed lead to being blocked from securing some jobs as that is one of the consequences listed for those that have been blacklisted. I assume that is if you have a sufficiently low blacklist score. Lower score, more severe penalties. Would be a shame if a single instance of jaywalking lowered an already troubled score sufficiently that you would suddenly be barred from a job you are trying to get at that time or heaven forbid, cause a job to be lost that requires a worked to maintain a certain credit level.

Second point: While no school completely prevents entry based on race, they stack the odds against certain races to such a high degree that its statistically nearly impossible and requires the person to be in such a small percentile. Like asian students (including Chinese-Americans, how ironic) applying for ivy league schools would have to outperfrom their peers of other races by 500 points and in some schools even that is not enought, they simply won't accept asian-americans. This can be called nothing but institutional racism, by definition it is institutional racism. Thats not speculation, thats facts.

Was wondering if you might use that as an example. I actually agree with you on the discriminatory outcomes of these diversity initiatives in our colleges and work places. It goes hand in hand with the idea that meritocracy is inherently racists, which happens to be an increasing ideology in many of our schools as it's the antithesis of inclusivity.

 

[Fawlty]

Oh look the guy who declared himself dictator for life is imposing outrageous hardships on his people huge shocker

 

[Teppodama]

It says nothing there of informing on citizens gaining you points, if you're going to speculate then do so but don't quote an article then inject your own speculation as if thats the content of the actual article.

The article states: good scores are given to those who engage in charitable work, recycling, cleaning up pollution etc. sounds decent to me. Isn't China polluted as fuck? bout time they give people incentive to clean shit up.

Stop thinking these people are just like westerners, they do shit they're own way and always have.

My quote was to highlight that this system provides for the accumulation of rewards based on scores. Better, faster healthcare service apparently being one of them. There are only so many ways that the government can or could monitor it's citizens over the rather broad range of activities that are either blacklist or approved conduct, speech, etc. It stands to reason then that allowing for the accumulation of points by citizens assisting the government in monitoring their fellow citizens for breeches of the Chinese national and societal interest are either in place or will be as this system develops further.

However, if you simply must have an articled source I will make sure to look for such in my ongoing reading online on this subject and reference it in a future post.

 

[IDL]

This seems like a continuation of the 'sesame credit' concept that was being developed in China a few years ago. The 'gamification' of being a compliant citizen basically, however compliance is deemed at any given time. Including how one interacts on social media.

From my understanding the Chinese government works with giant corporations like Allibaba to implement these kinds of things as it requires monitoring and compiling a lot of data about you that cross the computer networks of large firms.

It makes sense as a social engineering strategy.

 

[Seaside]

30 million civilians murdered by US military since WW2, yeah you're the 'good guys'. Love how you spread that 'liberal democracy'. Like all those people who were 'liberated' from being alive.

On topic: the term "social credit" sounds odd, but really isn't this about simply following the law? How is this any worse than californias 3 strike rule? its not. Dont be an asshole, don't start fights, dont litter like a jackass, dont cause distrubance in airports, etc. If you do you get demerit points just like you do if you drive like an asshole and if you drive like an asshole too much we take your license away. Same deal.

But the term social credit sounds terrifying, probably made up term by western news with no direct translation to mandarin. But yeah, lets nuke the commies, blah blah.

I think everyone in the world except westerners/americaners can see that they are a weird entity of destructive behavior inside but then they do foreign wars abroad and stuff.

No, they both represent it. America is just taking a different and slower path to get there. We are expanding the definitions of what is considered "aggressive" behavior, we are expanding our tolerance for more restrictive policies on what citizens can do, say and act. We are conditioning ourselves to accept more intrusive oversight and scrutiny of our personal lives and sources of information by our government and peers. We are questioning the boundaries of some of the basic freedoms we by and large take for granted or simply don't respect any more and finding increasingly convoluted means to justify our actions in regards to them.

The only difference between what China is now and what we are becoming is they have by and large accepted or adapted to function within their reality and we are still lying to ourselves that the path we are one isn't leading to the very same outcome.

We are in the midst of our own Americanized version of the Chinese cultural revolution.

yeah you guys have 2nd and 1st ammendment but then you got people want undo it and you continue to do foreign wars and increase power of intelligence oversight spying etc. I think good thing is that for example you were NOT invited into Syria and yet you guys went in anyway. That is illegal! It was not until @VivaRevolution say it did i realize oh crap it true! a legal standing government said ¨no¨and you guys went in anyway but your media probably sells it as greatest idea ever.

 

[IDL]

Oh, I completely agree we are in the midst of our own developing dystopian future here in the US. We're just going about it in a different manner but will very likely end up at the same destination.

In a lot of ways, the difference is just that the Chinese government has the ability to do it more efficiently and overtly with less criticism and pushback by citizens.

It's not like elements of governments in Western nations don't salivate at the idea of pushing for more and more control over citizens, and take measures to push in that direction.

 

[MicroBrew]

Message to China: Well that escalated quickly !

 

[Teppodama]

yeah you guys have 2nd and 1st ammendment but then you got people want undo it and you continue to do foreign wars and increase power of intelligence oversight spying etc. I think good thing is that for example you were NOT invited into Syria and yet you guys went in anyway. That is illegal! It was not until @VivaRevolution say it did i realize oh crap it true! a legal standing government said ¨no¨and you guys went in anyway but your media probably sells it as greatest idea ever.

That is the downside of many Western Nations seeing and using the United States as some form of Global police force or threat to deal with issues they are incapable of, or don't want to deal with themselves.

After a certain point, we either come to or already believe it to be so as well. That comes with a degree of initiative on what we also see as our duty and what we will engage in and with whom for whatever reason we choose to use as a justification. That doesn't even bring into the discussion our very own purely selfish reasons for any action we may engage in globally.

Here's the thing. You want less of the US in the world, then stop asking or expecting the US to be your bludgeon. Realize also you simply won't get complete withdrawal from global politics or military actions, we will protect our investments after all, but it will make it harder to justify such actions to the rest of the global community and to our own citizens.

 

[IDL]

I think everyone in the world except westerners/americaners can see that they are a weird entity of destructive behavior inside but then they do foreign wars abroad and stuff.

Plenty of Westerners see this odd contrast. It can be understood in many ways. One of which is subversion, which is a mechanism of 'capture' essentially in warfare terms. Weakening and destabilizing the internal structures of those entities you wish to capture through demoralization and constant internal agitation and reversal of values that would led to stability. Another is the dissolution of the concept of nation and sovereignty by breaking the majority in order to establish an international governing model as a form of globalization and rule by fewer people.

Sort of a way to conquer something from the inside.

But that is a sidetrack..

 

[MicroBrew]

And some people still want communism here in the West.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ocial-credit-from-planes-trains-idUSKCN1GS10S


When the world allowed China into the WTO, they expected a softening of the Communistic Government when exposed to the tech/freedom of the world. Instead they are using the latest and greatest to continue to subjugate their populace.

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China is not Communist. They are Communist in name only.

China is a Capitalistic Racial Nationalist government and society. They moved away from government owning the means of production to EthnoNationalism and hyper Capitalism.
Being a 1 party state does not make them Communist, if that were the case then Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait etc.. would all be Communist.

A Soviet Communist said something to this effect: The Capitalist will sell us the rope we will use to hang them with.

The US and the West has been selling the totalitarian Chinese the rope they are using to wage economic war and attempts at world hegemony.

 

[Seaside]

In a lot of ways, the difference is just that the Chinese government has the ability to do it more efficiently and overtly with less criticism and pushback by citizens.

It's not like elements of governments in Western nations don't salivate at the idea of pushing for more and more control over citizens, and take measures to push in that direction.

the west will self destruct or a big war will happen and shit and they will use there police state they build up actually and become like china.

That is the downside of many Western Nations seeing and using the United States as some form of Global police force or threat to deal with issues they are incapable of, or don't want to deal with themselves.

After a certain point, we either come to or already believe it to be so as well. That comes with a degree of initiative on what we also see as our duty and what we will engage in and with whom for whatever reason we choose to use as a justification. That doesn't even bring into the discussion our very own purely selfish reasons for any action we may engage in globally.

Here's the thing. You want less of the US in the world, then stop asking or expecting the US to be your bludgeon. Realize you simply won't get complete withdrawal from global politics or military actions, we will protect our investments after all, but it will make it harder to justify such actions to the rest of the global community or to our own citizens.

i mentioned Syria man. when did syira ever want a US invasion? what are you talking about. what about all that meddling in latin america and ´regime´change and empowering far right actual fascists who killed ´nationalist communists´with CIA help? that was mild compare to US policy in africa and middle east which all about creating failed states.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I just read a statistic that said something like 67% of airline captains have witnessed inter passenger violence aboard their aircraft. As much as I hate the idea of a social credit system, how long do you think it’ll be before airlines in the US just start imposing something similar on their own?

We do have a no fly list. Not the same but not too different.

30 million civilians murdered by US military since WW2, yeah you're the 'good guys'. Love how you spread that 'liberal democracy'. Like all those people who were 'liberated' from being alive.

Not sure you want to start comparing deaths dating back that far, China doesn't exactly have the cleanest record in the 20th century. We ain't perfect but at least we didn't starve millions, maybe tens of millions, of our own citizens via abject incompetence.