Charles Oliveira brought in an Iranian wrestling coach. Islam brought no special bij coach in

[Rektkid]

Islam is not even wrestling. Half the things Islam does the Iranian guy doesn’t understand.
Islam combines wrestling, judo, bij and many other things.

The Iranian guy is trying to prevent him from being taken down. They know that Islam will make him tired after one round top control.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Islam finishes Charles with a kimura from half guard. he knows he has long arms like hooker.
They will try to isolate his arm for a kimura.

That kimura on Hooker was brutal.

 

[SkinnyClaw]

I think high level BJJ is getting way underestimated these days. The top BJJ monsters are not competing in MMA, and the ones who are in the UFC, like Ortega, Burns, etc, don't have problems with wrestlers.

I have no idea how its going to go down between Charles and Islam, but I think the idea that the 'Dagestani grappling' just runs through BJJ has not been tested yet. Khabib and Islam are the absolute best from their team, but they never faced the absolute best from the BJJ team.

In a grappling match, like ADCC for example, I would put money on the best BJJ guys to beat the best Dagestani guys any day to be honest. You can't send the absolute best Sambo guy in the world against 'good' BJJ guys and say Sambo>BJJ

 

[Shilajit]

I agree. But Charles said that he will beat him on the ground from guard.
if he really believed that. He wouldn’t train take down defence.

don't take anything said before a fight too seriously. It's all hyperbole.

I'm sure Oliveira Is confident In the danger he presents on the ground to anyone, that doesn't mean he wants his opponent to dictate how It gets there. If possible, you want some level of control of how or when it goes there.

 

[Last Falconry]

is he really trying to finish guys? Or does he want them to panick for a submission?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

never really understood why people bring in olympic style wrestlers to help them learn MMA TDD. shouldnt you bring in someone known for stopping TD’s in mma?

 

[Shilajit]

I think high level BJJ is getting way underestimated these days. The top BJJ monsters are not competing in MMA, and the ones who are in the UFC, like Ortega, Burns, etc, don't have problems with wrestlers.

I have no idea how its going to go down between Charles and Islam, but I think the idea that the 'Dagestani grappling' just runs through BJJ has not been tested yet. Khabib and Islam are the absolute best from their team, but they never faced the absolute best from the BJJ team.

In a grappling match, like ADCC for example, I would put money on the best BJJ guys to beat the best Dagestani guys any day to be honest. You can't send the absolute best Sambo guy in the world against 'good' BJJ guys and say Sambo>BJJ

iirc, Islam fought an ADCC guy and basically neutralized him on the ground. Unless I'm thinking of another dagestani

 

[Luckyme]

I think high level BJJ is getting way underestimated these days. The top BJJ monsters are not competing in MMA, and the ones who are in the UFC, like Ortega, Burns, etc, don't have problems with wrestlers.

I have no idea how its going to go down between Charles and Islam, but I think the idea that the 'Dagestani grappling' just runs through BJJ has not been tested yet. Khabib and Islam are the absolute best from their team, but they never faced the absolute best from the BJJ team.

In a grappling match, like ADCC for example, I would put money on the best BJJ guys to beat the best Dagestani guys any day to be honest. You can't send the absolute best Sambo guy in the world against 'good' BJJ guys and say Sambo>BJJ

False equivalence. Pure BJJ does not translate to success in MMA. And there have been plenty of high level BJJ guys who've crossed over to MMA and lost to lesser grapplers such as Rodolfo Viera.

ADCC and other accomplishments are meaningless in MMA because the dynamics completely change once you mix in striking. Like the old adage goes, punch a BJJ black belt in the face once they become a brown belt, punch them again and they drop to a purple, then blue, and so on. Not to mention, many BJJ guys have bad takedowns or are too comfortable on the bottom which is a losing strategy in MMA.

 

[eno78]

What happened with Charles Oliveira wants the fight on the ground?
What happened with Charles being comfortable on the ground?
He is completely focused on take down defence.

Oliveira is shook.

You must have been shook when you were a baby if that's what you actually think

 

[Luckyme]

never really understood why people bring in olympic style wrestlers to help them learn MMA TDD. shouldnt you bring in someone known for stopping TD’s in mma?

It's the same reason why people still train individuallly in boxing, BJJ, and other Martial arts . You need to learn a discipline from a specialist in it's purest form to be able to apply it effectively in MMA.

Khabib trained with David Safaryan, Olympic wrestler and freestyle world champion, for the Gaethje fight. Islam also trains with Olympic wrestlers.

 

[plataoplombo]

I think high level BJJ is getting way underestimated these days. The top BJJ monsters are not competing in MMA, and the ones who are in the UFC, like Ortega, Burns, etc, don't have problems with wrestlers.

I have no idea how its going to go down between Charles and Islam, but I think the idea that the 'Dagestani grappling' just runs through BJJ has not been tested yet. Khabib and Islam are the absolute best from their team, but they never faced the absolute best from the BJJ team.

In a grappling match, like ADCC for example, I would put money on the best BJJ guys to beat the best Dagestani guys any day to be honest. You can't send the absolute best Sambo guy in the world against 'good' BJJ guys and say Sambo>BJJ

I think Mike Musomeci just called out whoever is the sambo champion and hasn't really head anything back.

 

[Redando]

You must have been shook when you were a baby if that's what you actually think

why do you have to be so mean?

 

[Joshuaace]

I was being hyperbolic, you're right. I considered going back and rewording that but decided "fuck it" the hyperbole gets people responding more.

Fair enough. I typically see your posts as being objective with very little hyperbole.


A striker forced to grapple gasses prematurely, and vice versa. We all know this. Charles is comfortable everywhere. His cardio will get drained by energy output only.

On the other hand. Islam has a very structured plan and rarely deviates from it. The threat of the td is enough to keep some fighters from advancing at him. That won't be the case here. That itself may make Islam a bit uncomfortable.

Only a couple times have we seen someone wrestle at Islam, that also may happen here. Islam does his best td work at the fence, and he is damn good at it. Often he is able to pressure his opponent backwards to the cage. I do not think the td threat and his striking is enough to back Ollie up to the fence though. Again, uncomfortable.

As you mentioned, guillotine awareness has likely been a focus for Mak this camp. Keeping his neck safe probably includes not shooting at the legs in open space. But if he can't back Charles up, that's what he has to do. Uncomfortable.

So from the start of the fight I think Mak will be forced to choose between backing up, shooting out in the middle, or banging it out on the feet. I really don't believe Islam will be comfortable with any of those options. So his cardio will be taxed by being uncomfortable or unfamiliar with some situations in the fight, right from the start.

When he is in top position, most of Islams opponents are just looking to survive, 100% focused on defense. That won't be the case here, at least for a couple rounds. Charles will absolutely be threatening offense from the bottom. Again, that might not be so comfortable for Islam.

Team Ollie recently said Islam wont be able to take down Charles. On it's face that seems silly since he doesn't typically defend TD's much since he is comfortable on his back. He did resist some TD's against Lentz though, long before Alireza even got there. His overall wrestling may be vastly under rated and flying under the radar at this point. If Islam has to wrestle defensively, or work harder than anticipated for TD's, bad for him again.

I don't see the fight starting the 4th. CO fights in a manner that a winner is determined inside the time limit 90% of the time. All offense, all the time, any position, until he gasses or gets outgunned. Charles being able to put Islam in uncomfortable and unfamiliar positions I believe will drain Islam at a little faster rate.

I am certainly not blind to the possibility of Charles gassing first though.

 

[capnlarge]

Charles is smart to try to avoid being on the bottom. This is almost never a good position to be in in the UFC in 2022. No one's getting caught in subs from the bottom

 

[FriskyRandy]

What happened with Charles Oliveira wants the fight on the ground?
What happened with Charles being comfortable on the ground?
He is completely focused on take down defence.

Oliveira is shook.

What a stupid god dam post.

 

[ColombianFist]

He doesn't need a bjj coach because he's a sambo specialist and Khabib is coaching him, plus he trains A LOT with top bjj guys in AKA. He probably learned a few things from Rockhold

 

[HuskySamoan]

Fair enough. I typically see your posts as being objective with very little hyperbole.


A striker forced to grapple gasses prematurely, and vice versa. We all know this. Charles is comfortable everywhere. His cardio will get drained by energy output only.

On the other hand. Islam has a very structured plan and rarely deviates from it. The threat of the td is enough to keep some fighters from advancing at him. That won't be the case here. That itself may make Islam a bit uncomfortable.

Only a couple times have we seen someone wrestle at Islam, that also may happen here. Islam does his best td work at the fence, and he is damn good at it. Often he is able to pressure his opponent backwards to the cage. I do not think the td threat and his striking is enough to back Ollie up to the fence though. Again, uncomfortable.

As you mentioned, guillotine awareness has likely been a focus for Mak this camp. Keeping his neck safe probably includes not shooting at the legs in open space. But if he can't back Charles up, that's what he has to do. Uncomfortable.

So from the start of the fight I think Mak will be forced to choose between backing up, shooting out in the middle, or banging it out on the feet. I really don't believe Islam will be comfortable with any of those options. So his cardio will be taxed by being uncomfortable or unfamiliar with some situations in the fight, right from the start.

When he is in top position, most of Islams opponents are just looking to survive, 100% focused on defense. That won't be the case here, at least for a couple rounds. Charles will absolutely be threatening offense from the bottom. Again, that might not be so comfortable for Islam.

Team Ollie recently said Islam wont be able to take down Charles. On it's face that seems silly since he doesn't typically defend TD's much since he is comfortable on his back. He did resist some TD's against Lentz though, long before Alireza even got there. His overall wrestling may be vastly under rated and flying under the radar at this point. If Islam has to wrestle defensively, or work harder than anticipated for TD's, bad for him again.

I don't see the fight starting the 4th. CO fights in a manner that a winner is determined inside the time limit 90% of the time. All offense, all the time, any position, until he gasses or gets outgunned. Charles being able to put Islam in uncomfortable and unfamiliar positions I believe will drain Islam at a little faster rate.

I am certainly not blind to the possibility of Charles gassing first though.

I just don't have high hopes that Charles can maintain the pace at which he fights at for more than 2 rounds without beginning to noticeably slow. I agree with you, for the first 10 minutes Islam will be uncomfortable and have to sail stormy waters but if I had to bet, I'd bet Islam makes it to shore. I've never seen Islam gas and he had hard fought battles vs Wade and Arman but by the 3rd round he was pouring it on while they faded. While I think Charles will intend to pressure forward and not find himself against the cage, he will end up against the cage....Islam will be uncomfortable shooting in on singles because of guillotine and I'd imagine if Islam tries to clinch with a body lock, over unders etc Charles will look to launch knees and elbows too. It's a crazy fight and I cannot wait, but I do see Islam as a guy who can go a hard 25 minutes where I seriously doubt Charles can. I wouldn't be surprised if Islam drops Charles either, his defense is so wide open and his chin isn't the best.

A lot of unknowns, we haven't seen anyone try to pressure Islam or go straight at him on the feet the way Charles will nor have we seen Islam have to deal with a high level offensive guard. Flipside is the last time Charles fought a strong takedown artist he had to rely on gassing Kevin Lee because until Lee tired he was able to power out of every submission attempt and bully his way back to top position in every scramble. The guy who's carrying the weight on bottom and being worn on in the clinch tends to be the one who gasses first too. As the fight nears I give Charles more and more of a chance but I still see Islam as a clear favorite. I think Islam will get the takedowns when he needs to but it's up to Charles to punish him as much as possible while he tries and to create chaos and find opportunity in those transitional moments.

 

[SovereignPhantom]

Fair enough. I typically see your posts as being objective with very little hyperbole.


A striker forced to grapple gasses prematurely, and vice versa. We all know this. Charles is comfortable everywhere. His cardio will get drained by energy output only.

On the other hand. Islam has a very structured plan and rarely deviates from it. The threat of the td is enough to keep some fighters from advancing at him. That won't be the case here. That itself may make Islam a bit uncomfortable.

Only a couple times have we seen someone wrestle at Islam, that also may happen here. Islam does his best td work at the fence, and he is damn good at it. Often he is able to pressure his opponent backwards to the cage. I do not think the td threat and his striking is enough to back Ollie up to the fence though. Again, uncomfortable.

As you mentioned, guillotine awareness has likely been a focus for Mak this camp. Keeping his neck safe probably includes not shooting at the legs in open space. But if he can't back Charles up, that's what he has to do. Uncomfortable.

So from the start of the fight I think Mak will be forced to choose between backing up, shooting out in the middle, or banging it out on the feet. I really don't believe Islam will be comfortable with any of those options. So his cardio will be taxed by being uncomfortable or unfamiliar with some situations in the fight, right from the start.

When he is in top position, most of Islams opponents are just looking to survive, 100% focused on defense. That won't be the case here, at least for a couple rounds. Charles will absolutely be threatening offense from the bottom. Again, that might not be so comfortable for Islam.

Team Ollie recently said Islam wont be able to take down Charles. On it's face that seems silly since he doesn't typically defend TD's much since he is comfortable on his back. He did resist some TD's against Lentz though, long before Alireza even got there. His overall wrestling may be vastly under rated and flying under the radar at this point. If Islam has to wrestle defensively, or work harder than anticipated for TD's, bad for him again.

I don't see the fight starting the 4th. CO fights in a manner that a winner is determined inside the time limit 90% of the time. All offense, all the time, any position, until he gasses or gets outgunned. Charles being able to put Islam in uncomfortable and unfamiliar positions I believe will drain Islam at a little faster rate.

I am certainly not blind to the possibility of Charles gassing first though.

Yup, I think the comfort factor is a major intangible people might be downplaying here. Islam is very good and has great fight IQ, but you simply cannot know how you perform against the top, well-rounded guys in a fight (not a gym spar) until you get in there with them. He may be unfazed. But we simply haven't seen enough of him against a) prepared and b) experienced opposition. He's fought people of each category but no one who fits both.

 

[fedoriswar37]

It's smart. Working to defend takedown, create scrambles. He doesn't have to be on his back to submit him. Khabib and Islam are notorious for diving for takedowns . Islam better make sure he doesn't leave his neck out going for them.

 

[Simple Southerner]

Troll thread @ it's finest ya took the bait

 

[Reaperman]

I mean, it’s smart for Oliviera, but spending 1 training camp with an elite wrestler is not going to make up for years and years of wrestling experience.