Chambering the Knee?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by in8oo, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. in8oo

    in8oo White Belt

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    How often do you see Mixed Martial Artists chamber their knee before kicks (especially before a roundhouse)?

    From Wikipedia:

    "The taekwondo roundhouse kick, is performed by first drawing the knee straight up in a "chamber" position. This chamber, identical to the chamber of many taekwondo kicks (front kick, side kick, etc.) is utilized so that the opponent cannot guess which kick will be thrown. This differentiates it from Muay Thai and other roundhouse kicks, which tend to incorporate rotation before or during the rising of the knee. The knee is then rotated so that it is nearly parallel to the ground (counterclockwise for the right leg roundhouse) and the kicking hip is simultaneously rotated towards the opponent. The rotation of the hip, combined with the snapping of the leg forward, gives the kick its power. The striking surface is the instep or the ball of the foot. This is also called an "off the line" or "rear leg" roundhouse kick."

    While some might argue that chambering the knee before the kick comes at the expense of power, I feel that the speed of the kick and the fact that the kick remains "hidden" more than compensates for the "lack" of power.

    Example - Check out 3.40

    Thoughts?
     
  2. No Quarter

    No Quarter Blue Belt

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    The majority of fighters training in MMA these days train Muay Thai as their primary striking art.

    You do not chamber the kick in MT as you have stated above for power reasons.

    I began my training in TMA many years ago so I was also taught to chamber round house kicks. I now train MT and find that I can generate more power and speed by NOT chambering the kick.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  3. ChachiKiller

    ChachiKiller Brown Belt

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    It never hurts to do both. GSP does a good job with this. He sets up power kicks with finesse kicks. In the case of Hughes, the finesse kick knocked him out. I did not know that was possible.
     
  4. ChachiKiller

    ChachiKiller Brown Belt

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    It never hurts to do both. GSP does a good job with this. He sets up power kicks with finesse kicks. In the case of Hughes, the finesse kick knocked him out. I did not know that was possible.
     
  5. jlagman

    jlagman Duty Belt

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    Chambering the leg for the purpose of hiding intent seems much better suited for TKD tournaments than Muay Thai or MMA. You can catch kicks and sweep in Muay Thai, you can shoot in MMA. Under those conditions, it doesn't seem to make much sense standing on one leg, with your leg chambered, for a longer period of time; there are plenty of other ways to feint.
     
  6. strangelov

    strangelov Sunshine In My Throat

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    The chambering is done to generate power and to disguise the technique, as previously stated. Contrary to belief, properly executed TKD kicks don't leave you exposed for very long. To kick, you have to pick a foot off the floor; the fighter is at risk through out the execution the technique until it is completed and the foot returns to the floor. I'd say the risk is equal to almost any kicking technique. It’s harder to catch a leg that is pushing forward and then pulling out then a leg coming in with a swooping motion to strike with very little retraction after impact as the foot falls to the side.

    To me, MT kicks generate a lot of power, but do that at the cost of telegraphing the kick.

    I think both techniques can be very successful when properly used. As another poster pointed out with GSP as the example, training in both makes a stronger fighter. Think of it in terms of punching. There are jabs, hooks, upper cuts, and overheads. Many MT kicks are like power full, blindsiding hooks. The knees are like short, but powerful uppercuts. TKD front and side kicks come out with a quick popping motion like jabs. Ax kicks are like overheads, you get the picture. Taking that into account, I’ve seen fighter KO from quickly slipped jabs as well as power shots like hooks. Having the variety in your tool bag doesn’t hurt.

    Lately we've been seeing fighter employing more straight kicks, spinning back kicks, and side kicks. I believe this is being done to mix it up. MT is so common place. Many fighters train specifically to defend against MT striking. TKD and Karate techniques are unorthodox to many MMA fighters and can cause problems for them in a fight. Variety and evolution is key to stay ahead of you opponent.


    I think I made a valid point somewhere in this tangent of a post.
     
  7. Halfbreed83

    Halfbreed83 Blue Belt

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  8. guynamedtroy

    guynamedtroy Banned Banned

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  9. Halfbreed83

    Halfbreed83 Blue Belt

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    Savate and TKD look very similar :)
     
  10. guynamedtroy

    guynamedtroy Banned Banned

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    Trust me, their not.
     
  11. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    Ummm no! Just bc GSP kicked Hughes with his front leg doenst make it a finesse kick! If you notice he quickly shifts his weight so he can get his hips into the kick. That kick was NOT a snap round kick it was a power round with the front leg!!
     
  12. Halfbreed83

    Halfbreed83 Blue Belt

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    How so? This is not a derogatory statement, just an observation: Both are very light on their feet, both chamber kicks and encourage kicking. I guess the traditional savate suits and the shoes completely void these similarities :)
     
  13. flosh

    flosh Purple Belt

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    Machida does it sometimes
     
  14. Lizardman

    Lizardman Orange Belt

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    The kick in question is actually a dragon-kick (or Brazilian Kick as known around here). That kick is specifically meant for being somewhat elusive or hidden.

    To me, chambering in tandem with kicking with the foot help focus the power generated by my hips and quads (from lifting and chambering) into my foot. Kicking with more of a ball and chain action rather than B-bat swinging action.

    If you're chambered longer than the time it should take you to fluently extend your lower leg, you're not (or shouldn't be) worried about power. Only time that crap is used is in point sparring.

    Overall, it depends on the situation.
     
  15. koreankid6413

    koreankid6413 Brown Belt

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    theres a time to use chambered kicks and a time not to, depending on the situation chambering the kick can knock your opponent out where not chambering would do nothing. chambering also isn't recognized by most mma fighters and it shocks some of them
     
  16. guynamedtroy

    guynamedtroy Banned Banned

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    TKD has a very limited focus on hands, while Boxe Francaise Savate balances between both. It is light on the feet but elusive and no blocking with the legs and limited "blocking" with the arms.

    There is probably more to that but I am only a beginner in Savate, and I have never studied TKD.
     
  17. Halfbreed83

    Halfbreed83 Blue Belt

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    Cool :icon_chee
     
  18. djchen011032

    djchen011032 White Belt

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    True to that focus on hands, i was once told

    "Dont punch, it doesnt score any points!"
    Wow, did that ever got on my nerves.

    That was back in the day i used to setup an aggressive back kick with a jab to the shoulders... and then to get disqualified for

    "Attempting to punch to the head."

    I hated the TKD ruleset >_>
     
  19. ChachiKiller

    ChachiKiller Brown Belt

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    It is a power round if he opens his front kicking hip more. He did not do that. His knee was parallel to Hughes and he extended his leg.

    It is senseless to throw a step-up POWER round house. Takes a bit longer and leaves you open in front of your opponent.
     
  20. Too Defensive**

    Too Defensive** Banned Banned

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    The muay thai kick doesn't care if its blocked or not. It will still do damage. Also, the chambered kick does not leave you on one leg for a long period of time. The whole process is lighting fast.
     

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