Cesar Gracie BJJ and Loyalty

[makaio]

In light of last night's epic display of awesomeness, I just wanted to take this moment to give props to Cesar Gracie for what it's worth and to give my perspective of my experiences as a member of his Academy for the past few years. Although I've never met or trained with Nick or Nate Diaz or well known "great" MMA fighters that have come from his Academy, I believe I understand a little bit about where their seemingly unshakable loyalty to their trainers and coaches comes from, which also seems to extend throughout the other members that train there as hobbyists, which most of us are.

Here are a few observations:

1. Cesar is a cool mofo and is always present at the Academy. Even though there is a permanent BB on the mat as the head trainer, he always shows up and genuinely cares for his white belts on up the chain. The guy obviously has tons of other things to do but he's always there.

2. Though I've been training on/off for 3 years at his Academy, I've never even received a stripe. (I'm a 3-stripe Blue Belt given in 2007 by Yuki Nakai from Paraestra, Tokyo) While it has been slightly demoralizing, I've been forced to deal with it and recognize the fact that my actual progression in the art form is more important than the "display" of my progression. Perhaps this blood, sweat and tears approach weeds out quitters and breeds loyalty in the minds of those who stick with it. I know what I need to do to get that stripe, and it's called mat-time...

3. In my experience, Cesar's students are very tough. This could be a function of BJJ in America so I'm not so sure that it isn't taking place all over the US, i.e.: Americans are getting better and better at BJJ so the 12 month white belt of today could be the advanced blue belt of 15 years ago. In any case, Gracie Fighter BJJ is pretty much no-nonsense, straight training for the duration of class. People don't really take breaks.....at all, unless there is some sort of injury, etc. People aren't taking a break to grab a drink unless the instructor says so. Every other Academy I've trained at is usually more liberal with these types of things... No idea if this makes better BJJ players, but it does instill some kind of stoic toughness.

4. So through the injuries, gaps in training, plateaus, etc., for some reason I recently had a breakthrough in my thinking, which is really just the "Marathon, not sprint approach" to training for what hopefully amounts to a lifetime when it's all said and done. For me, BJJ is a lifestyle which I'm imperfect at but has continuously "led me to water" through the ups and downs. The other veterans at the Academy have given me inspiration too but not through direct encouragement or anything like that, merely by leading by example, which is STFU and train. (Cash Bill, Yuzo, Caleb, George, Allesandro Ferreira, Queixinho and most recently Luiz "Guga" Campos) TBH, these guys might not even know me by name, as my personality is a little low-key and I'm routinely getting tapped by other blues and sometimes whites (YIKES!). I guess the point of this one is, when you get a belt from Cesar, that shit is for real and when you see someone with a purple, brown or black belt from Cesar, that shit is for real for real.

So, let's all keep training my ladies and gentleman and, as Cesar says "fight the good fight."

P.S. - How close am I to purple belt? hahahaha

 

[RTD1]

People don't really take breaks.....at all, unless there is some sort of injury, etc. People aren't taking a break to grab a drink unless the instructor says so. Every other Academy I've trained at is usually more liberal with these types of things... No idea if this makes better BJJ players, but it does instill some kind of stoic toughness.

IMO, the whole "water break" is very much a west coast thing. On the east coast and rest of the country, you drink water before and after class, you don't walk out of class every 15-20 minutes to get a sip.

 

[JustTheTip]

In light of last night's epic display of awesomeness, I just wanted to take this moment to give props to Cesar Gracie for what it's worth and to give my perspective of my experiences as a member of his Academy for the past few years. Although I've never met or trained with Nick or Nate Diaz or well known "great" MMA fighters that have come from his Academy, I believe I understand a little bit about where their seemingly unshakable loyalty to their trainers and coaches comes from, which also seems to extend throughout the other members that train there as hobbyists, which most of us are.

Here are a few observations:

1. Cesar is a cool mofo and is always present at the Academy. Even though there is a permanent BB on the mat as the head trainer, he always shows up and genuinely cares for his white belts on up the chain. The guy obviously has tons of other things to do but he's always there.

2. Though I've been training on/off for 3 years at his Academy, I've never even received a stripe. (I'm a 3-stripe Blue Belt given in 2007 by Yuki Nakai from Paraestra, Tokyo) While it has been slightly demoralizing, I've been forced to deal with it and recognize the fact that my actual progression in the art form is more important than the "display" of my progression. Perhaps this blood, sweat and tears approach weeds out quitters and breeds loyalty in the minds of those who stick with it. I know what I need to do to get that stripe, and it's called mat-time...

3. In my experience, Cesar's students are very tough. This could be a function of BJJ in America so I'm not so sure that it isn't taking place all over the US, i.e.: Americans are getting better and better at BJJ so the 12 month white belt of today could be the advanced blue belt of 15 years ago. In any case, Gracie Fighter BJJ is pretty much no-nonsense, straight training for the duration of class. People don't really take breaks.....at all, unless there is some sort of injury, etc. People aren't taking a break to grab a drink unless the instructor says so. Every other Academy I've trained at is usually more liberal with these types of things... No idea if this makes better BJJ players, but it does instill some kind of stoic toughness.

4. So through the injuries, gaps in training, plateaus, etc., for some reason I recently had a breakthrough in my thinking, which is really just the "Marathon, not sprint approach" to training for what hopefully amounts to a lifetime when it's all said and done. For me, BJJ is a lifestyle which I'm imperfect at but has continuously "led me to water" through the ups and downs. The other veterans at the Academy have given me inspiration too but not through direct encouragement or anything like that, merely by leading by example, which is STFU and train. (Cash Bill, Yuzo, Caleb, George, Allesandro Ferreira, Queixinho and most recently Luiz "Guga" Campos) TBH, these guys might not even know me by name, as my personality is a little low-key and I'm routinely getting tapped by other blues and sometimes whites (YIKES!). I guess the point of this one is, when you get a belt from Cesar, that shit is for real and when you see someone with a purple, brown or black belt from Cesar, that shit is for real for real.

So, let's all keep training my ladies and gentleman and, as Cesar says "fight the good fight."

P.S. - How close am I to purple belt? hahahaha

Do you still wear those shoes when rolling?

 

[makaio]

Do you still wear those shoes when rolling?

I have worn wrestling shoes a few times when my turf toe has flared up and I don't have time to tape.

 

[makaio]

IMO, the whole "water break" is very much a west coast thing. On the east coast and rest of the country, you drink water before and after class, you don't walk out of class every 15-20 minutes to get a sip.

Hmmmm, sounds like a hard thing to generalize to the West Coast and more of a function of the Academy decor. I trained at Phil Cardellas's Academy for a few years and there were no hard and fast rules on getting water.

Also, all my experiences with Academies in Japan were to do whatever one pleased.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Being around the Bay Area BJJ scene, I've encountered a great many old school Cesar Gracie guys who absolutely hate Cesar and think of him as something of a con artist. I suspect Nate, Shields, and Melendez also feel this way to an extent, as they are no longer affiliated with Cesar and have publicly shared criticism about his management practices (not sure about Nick). You can't argue with the impact he's had on the scene, or his eye for talent back in the day, but based on the plurality of stories I've heard I could never get behind the 'Celebrate Cesar Gracie' holiday you're suggesting with this thread.

 

[bigraydaddy1]

Elaborate ?

 

[makaio]

Being around the Bay Area BJJ scene, I've encountered a great many old school Cesar Gracie guys who absolutely hate Cesar and think of him as something of a con artist. I suspect Nate, Shields, and Melendez also feel this way to an extent, as they are no longer affiliated with Cesar and have publicly shared criticism about his management practices (not sure about Nick). You can't argue with the impact he's had on the scene, or his eye for talent back in the day, but based on the plurality of stories I've heard I could never get behind the 'Celebrate Cesar Gracie' holiday you're suggesting with this thread.

Interesting perspective. I've also read some negative things and was one of the reasons I made the original post. I can only give my viewpoint, which has been positive.

A quick Internet search will reveal that the Diaz brothers currently fly Cesar's flag at their Academy in Lodi, which would suggest otherwise from what you'd mentioned.

I understand that personalities clash and people screw one another over, sometimes it's real, sometimes it's not. Who knows... And I wasn't suggesting that anyone have a holiday, was just making personal observations And sharing them.

Have a great day!

 

[Coati858]

IMO, the whole "water break" is very much a west coast thing. On the east coast and rest of the country, you drink water before and after class, you don't walk out of class every 15-20 minutes to get a sip.

Hydrate or die.

In our gym, the "water break" is my signal to throw in my mouthguard, because we're done drilling and about to roll. I might get a sip of water, too, but I'm not chugging it down.

 

[BwamSolid]

Elaborate ?

Yes... please do.

 

[Stun Gun]

All I know is Cesar Gracie jiujitsu guys are tough just like Ralph Gracie guys

 

[nefti]

This idea of not drinking water during a physical activity is a silly concept of "toughness" that is harmful. In every other sport hydration is emphasized as a priority.

 

[Os3y3ris]

Um, HYDRATE. It's not a sign of toughness not to drink, it's a sign that you want to die painfully.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Elaborate ?

I won't name any names, and want to qualify by saying that Cesar's impact on Bay Area BJJ is undisputed even by his detractors. But if I had to summarize the criticism, it usually runs along these lines: "Cesar only cares about Cesar." "Cesar exploits his brown belts by making them prove loyalty before getting a black." "Cesar is not nearly as good at BJJ as his pedigree would suggest (I've heard some say he was fast-tracked a black belt so he could be installed as instructor)." "Ralph is the real Bay Area pioneer, but Cesar was brought over by the Gracies because of his English skills." "Cesar has gotten rich while fighters like Nick and Nate had to scrape by for years."

 

[makaio]

This idea of not drinking water during a physical activity is a silly concept of "toughness" that is harmful. In every other sport hydration is emphasized as a priority.

To put it in perspective, my middle school football practices in San Antonio, TX heat were waaaaay more intense where there was probably an actual danger.

My point was not that hydrating is bad, it was that there aren't people just cruising off the mats to go get water anytime they want. It's always cool to ask the instructor if need be.

Nobody is dying on the jiu jitsu mats of Northern California because they don't get a drink of water for 45 minutes as far as I know.

 

[kenpeters8]

I won't name any names, and want to qualify by saying that Cesar's impact on Bay Area BJJ is undisputed even by his detractors. But if I had to summarize the criticism, it usually runs along these lines: "Cesar only cares about Cesar." "Cesar exploits his brown belts by making them prove loyalty before getting a black." "Cesar is not nearly as good at BJJ as his pedigree would suggest (I've heard some say he was fast-tracked a black belt so he could be installed as instructor)." "Ralph is the real Bay Area pioneer, but Cesar was brought over by the Gracies because of his English skills." "Cesar has gotten rich while fighters like Nick and Nate had to scrape by for years."

I remember when Cesar Gracie got knocked out by Frank Shamrock in San Jose back in a 2006 Strikeforce event, I saw Ralph Gracie in the crowd laughing his ass off. I wonder why.

 

[nefti]

It has nothing to do with people "not dying" (horrible argument in itself). If the argument is that sparring time is somehow disrupted because people drink water that may hold a little bit of merit. But I am talking about some professors not allowing people to take a sip of water between rolls and they legitimize this belief with some idea of "toughness".

 

[mataleaos]

I've heard crazy stories of both liberal and conservative promotions. But I gotta say that consistently I've never heard of anyone being a more conservative promoter than Cesar Gracie. I remember when Nate Diaz was promoted to brown belt and being shocked he wasn't a black belt. Then being even more shocked at how much time he spent at brown belt after that. Cesar only has about a dozen black belts right?

 

[makaio]

It has nothing to do with people "not dying" (horrible argument in itself). If the argument is that sparring time is somehow disrupted because people drink water that may hold a little bit of merit. But I am talking about some professors not allowing people to take a sip of water between rolls and they legitimize this belief with some idea of "toughness".

Haha, okay man, maybe toughness isn't the right term. Hell, I don't know, maybe it's more about a more disciplined decorum or team atmosphere.

But I would argue that these little things that can in-fact impart toughness in a small way.

 

[GalegoREB]

Haha, okay man, maybe toughness isn't the right term. Hell, I don't know, maybe it's more about a more disciplined decorum or team atmosphere.

But I would argue that these little things that can in-fact impart toughness in a small way.

The only thing that dehydration does, is messing with your performance. If a grappler wants to be tougher, he should try boxing.