International Centenary: Chinese Communist Party (1921-2021)

[Deorum]

Will Jack Ma move to the US?

 

[ShinkanPo]

They will see if they can make the shape of his head funnier!
More square..

 

[D3THRONED]

As much as I truly believe China to be a massive threat to democracy and the West in the coming decades, as others have noted they have a pretty big fucking dilemma......

One well placed shot on Three Gorges Dam and 3/4 of their economy and most of their productive people are wiped out instantly.

I thought a few years ago there were legit concerns of this thing failing on its own.......what happened? They fill some holes wih JB Weld and call it a day?

@Deorum can you shed some light on this crinkle in China's armour?

Wouldn't worry about war tbh. Would be costly for both sides but China would be fucked way more. US nuclear submarines overwhelm them.

 

[D3THRONED]

Slavery? Camps? Never ending war?

We've had all of those things.

China has a lot of problems but you constantly beg for war on this forum. I've seen your posts about starving them out and shit. People like you are way worse than the CCP could ever dream of being. At least they aren't pushing their shit on others and invading other countries. It sounds like you'd being doing that if you were in power.

You mean like trying to take over the south china sea? or crossing into Indian territories? what about tibet? Lol just fucking leave already dude. You are too easy to see through.

 

[Zazen]

You mean like trying to take over the south china sea? or crossing into Indian territories? what about tibet? Lol just fucking leave already dude. You are too easy to see through.

The point is that shit is all bad but I'm willing to call out the USA's bad actions too. There is not consistency here with the a lot of the posters on sherdog.

USA has done a lot of great things despites its terrible history so why is it that when we talk about China lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty it is only met with anger? People are just upset that China is positioned to dethrone USA as the world's largest economy. It is that simple. Hell, even Bernie Sanders was heavily criticized for complementing China on that. I just think we should be a bit more nuanced when it comes to China.

 

[SammyPops]

Slavery? Camps? Never ending war?

We've had all of those things.

China has a lot of problems but you constantly beg for war on this forum. I've seen your posts about starving them out and shit. People like you are way worse than the CCP could ever dream of being. At least they aren't pushing their shit on others and invading other countries. It sounds like you'd being doing that if you were in power.

If you can't tell the difference b/t something done 100+ years ago like the US' slavery and what China is dong TODAY, I'm not sure how to move this topic forward.
But yeah, if we had a time machine I'd be arguing to go back in time and end slavery, including the black africans who sold other blacks africans into said slavery.

 

[Zazen]

Eh, "far right" tends to overtly tie nationalism to race, ethnicity and/or religion (China is no different). My variation is specifically based around citizenship and the well being of my countrymen regardless of the aforementioned, which is why I also support socioeconomic safety nets. It means I'm more concerned with America's national interests than those of the world at large; that I want the US to remain the primary driving force of scientific discovery and technological innovation and that I endorse the heavy handed promotion of American industry. Plus like, I'm gay. I can't be far right, breh. <45>

Unfortunately a lot of times American's "national" interests end up having us getting involved in international conflict. I'm all for putting America first but I want to avoid a war with China at all costs. I don't think China is the world ending regime like some posters here think. I think it would largely benefit the US to get along with China as long as they don't push their beliefs onto us. For the most part they don't and that is why I think most Americans are so hypocritical on this topic. For decades we've pushed our beliefs and been the bully yet so many unwilling to condemn those actions. I just hope people can look at China with more nuance instead of good vs evil.

 

[Deleted member 555403]

If you can't tell the difference b/t something done 100+ years ago like the US' slavery and what China is dong TODAY, I'm not sure how to move this topic forward.
But yeah, if we had a time machine I'd be arguing to go back in time and end slavery, including the black africans who sold other blacks africans into said slavery.

What america does today:

*Enforces a totalitarian capitalist hegemony
*Invades, coups, or embargoes your country into dust should you want to organize a political economy outside of this hegemony
*locks the citizenry of the entire world into wage slavery due to these policies
*parasitical loans, austerity for everyone but the capitalists, complete ecological destruction stemming from a system that must grow to feed itself because it is built on interest financing from top to bottom

 

[SammyPops]

What america does today:

*Enforces a totalitarian capitalist hegemony
*Invades, coups, or embargoes your country into dust should you want to organize a political economy outside of this hegemony
*locks the citizenry of the entire world into wage slavery due to these policies
*parasitical loans, austerity for everyone but the capitalists, complete ecological destruction stemming from a system that must grow to feed itself because it is built on interest financing from top to bottom

Sounds totally accurate.

 

[D3THRONED]

Unfortunately a lot of times American's "national" interests end up having us getting involved in international conflict. I'm all for putting America first but I want to avoid a war with China at all costs. I don't think China is the world ending regime like some posters here think. I think it would largely benefit the US to get along with China as long as they don't push their beliefs onto us. For the most part they don't and that is why I think most Americans are so hypocritical on this topic. For decades we've pushed our beliefs and been the bully yet so many unwilling to condemn those actions. I just hope people can look at China with more nuance instead of good vs evil.

Don't push their beliefs onto us? Dude you are legit a fucking troll. Ask the NBA about censorship. Hell even Hollywood has to make sure they don't say anything negative about the CCP. You are lying through your teeth.

 

[Zazen]

Don't push their beliefs onto us? Dude you are legit a fucking troll. Ask the NBA about censorship. Hell even Hollywood has to make sure they don't say anything negative about the CCP. You are lying through your teeth.

Bullshit. I've been arguing for regulated capitalism for years. That's the only thing that would prevent shit like that. You constantly smear anyone to the left of Trump as a commie. It would take a change in our capitalism to combat China but because conservatives obsess over the free market we are never getting there. Its hilarious, you're basically angry that America's capitalism is working as intended. China has 1.4 billion people and a rising middle class. That means NBA and Hollywood profit off of them more. You're your own worst enemy.

 

[Deorum]

As much as I truly believe China to be a massive threat to democracy and the West in the coming decades, as others have noted they have a pretty big fucking dilemma......

One well placed shot on Three Gorges Dam and 3/4 of their economy and most of their productive people are wiped out instantly.

I thought a few years ago there were legit concerns of this thing failing on its own.......what happened? They fill some holes wih JB Weld and call it a day?

@Deorum can you shed some light on this crinkle in China's armour?

Sorry bro, edited @ mention's don't show up in people's notifications so I missed this. It's a potential catastrophe to keep an eye on just as it is. The B-2 would wipe out all kinds of critical infrastructure before they even knew what hit them. They don't have anything in their arsenal remotely like it, and the Chinese penchant for turning everything military related into a dick measuring contest wouldn't allow them to keep it under wraps if they did. It's kind of ironic given CCP secrecy related to pretty much everything else.

Pure Filth.

The Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit is an American heavy strategic bomber, featuring low observable stealth technology designed for penetrating dense anti-aircraft defenses. The bomber can deploy both conventional and thermonuclear weapons, such as eighty 500-pound class (230 kg) Mk 82 JDAM Global Positioning System guided bombs, or sixteen 2,400-pound (1,100 kg) B83 nuclear bombs. The B-2 is the only acknowledged aircraft that can carry large air-to-surface standoff weapons in a stealth configuration.

The B-2's low-observable characteristics enable the undetected penetration of sophisticated anti-aircraft defenses and to strike even heavily defended targets. This stealth comes from a combination of reduced acoustic, infrared, visual and radar signatures (multi-spectral camouflage) to evade the various detection systems that could be used to detect and direct attacks against an aircraft. The B-2 enables the reduction of supporting aircraft that are required to provide air cover, suppression of enemy air defenses and electronic countermeasures, making the bomber a force multiplier.

The clean, low-drag flying wing configuration not only provides exceptional range but is also beneficial to reducing its radar profile. The flying wing design most closely resembles a so-called infinite flat plate, the perfect stealth shape, as it would lack angles to reflect back radar waves. Without vertical surfaces to reflect radar laterally, side aspect radar cross section is also reduced. The B-2 is composed of many curved and rounded surfaces across its exposed airframe to deflect radar beams. This technique, known as continuous curvature, was made possible by advances in computational fluid dynamics.

...

Wouldn't worry about war tbh. Would be costly for both sides but China would be fucked way more. US nuclear submarines overwhelm them.

Those things are fucking savage, aye?

There's 14 active Ohio-Class nuclear submarines prowling the oceans virtually undetectable and people at the highest levels of government that don't even know where the fuck they are at any given time. The Trident II ballistic missiles they have on board re-enter the atmosphere at Mach 24 and split up into eight independent re-entry vehicles that each carry a 475 kiloton nuclear warhead. A full deployment from just one of them would let off 192 warheads in less than a minute and strike targets from distances of up to 12,000 km. So 2,688 nukes in 60 seconds or less if they all got busy. And that's just the SLBM leg of triad. The UK has a similar setup, but far less subs and no land or air based delivery systems.

 

[Deorum]

Unfortunately a lot of times American's "national" interests end up having us getting involved in international conflict. I'm all for putting America first but I want to avoid a war with China at all costs. I don't think China is the world ending regime like some posters here think. I think it would largely benefit the US to get along with China as long as they don't push their beliefs onto us. For the most part they don't and that is why I think most Americans are so hypocritical on this topic. For decades we've pushed our beliefs and been the bully yet so many unwilling to condemn those actions. I just hope people can look at China with more nuance instead of good vs evil.

I'm a pretty staunch anti-interventionist when it comes to foreign policy. To me, national interests are items and industries such as American agriculture, aerospace, defense, energy, industrial tech, manufacturing, research and development. Those topics and their intersection with geopolitics are virtually the only things I ever discuss on this forum. Well, aside from providing insight, perspective and representation for one of the WR's most discussed and hated social outgroups.

 

[Deorum]

USA has done a lot of great things despites its terrible history

Yeah, it did blaze the trail as the original secular western country. The Constitution + Bill of Rights are enlightenment documents. It's the longest running democratic state on the planet, meaning the oldest existing nation with a constitutional government in which the people elect their own government and representatives, even if those representatives should be drawn and quartered.

It laid the foundations of statistical mechanics, molecular biology, quantum chemistry, quantum computing and nanotechnology; invented practical aerospace and brought industrial high tech into existence; made the vast majority of advancements and breakthroughs in human medicine, sequenced the human genome and has all but dominated the realms of space science and exploration to expand man's knowledge of the earth, solar system, galaxy, universe and our place within in it.

America's post-1945 foreign policy can't really stand as anything short of appalling to any secular humanist. The grievances of the Middle East and Latin America are particularly valid. However, I'd say the ills in terms of lives lost are obviously going to be exacerbated by default through possession of the most advanced weaponized technology that any world power has ever had at its disposal.

It also isn't as if the tensions and conflict between actors the likes of Russia and Ukraine/Baltic states, China and Taiwan, China and Japan, China and India, India and Pakistan (British policy), Saudi Arabia and Iran, Turkey and the Kurds, or divide between the Sunnis and Shiites in the Muslim world wouldn't exist independently of any US involvement whatsoever in global affairs. The world and humans in general are going to clusterfuck it up regardless.

 

[Broadcast]

They are killing them physically indeed, but the Western world kills us as morality. In Communist Europe, the world was much, much better than today. Today we are "free", but free and corrupt.

Don"t get me wrong, I am antiCommunist! But it"s chaos in present capitalism. I bet the capitalism was different back in the 70s in Sweden for example.

 

[Natural Order]

Sorry bro, edited @ mention's don't show up in people's notifications so I missed this. It's a potential catastrophe to keep an eye on just as it is. The B-2 would wipe out all kinds of critical infrastructure before they even knew what hit them. They don't have anything in their arsenal remotely like it, and the Chinese penchant for turning everything military related into a dick measuring contest wouldn't allow them to keep it under wraps if they did. It's kind of ironic given CCP secrecy related to pretty much everything else.


...

Those things are fucking savage, aye?

You've put my mind at ease comrade. For now!

 

[Denter]

TL;DR: An observation on the People's Republic of China. Any thoughts on the infamous 'all powerful' ruling party, its history, current developments, or how it should be dealt with now and in the future? Are we entering the "Chinese Century"? Here's to the next 100 years? Yes, "Fuck The CCP". Noted. This is actually the first of two centennials they have marked and the country has been through much: Civil War (1945-1949) to Great Leap Forward (1958-1962) to Cultural Revolution (1966-1976) and finally into Contemporary Era (1978-present) -plus- COVID-19. All of those are open to discussion and opinion.

Modern Beginnings.

Deng Xiaoping (22 August 1904 – 19 February 1997) was a Chinese politician who was the paramount leader of the People's Republic of China from 1978 until his retirement in 1992. After Chairman Mao Zedong's death in 1976, Deng rose to power and led China through a series of far-reaching market-economy reforms, which earned him the reputation as the "Architect of Modern China."

Deng outmaneuvered the late Chairman's chosen successor Hua Guofeng and became the new paramount leader of the People's Republic in December 1978. Inheriting a country beset with social conflict, disenchantment with the Communist Party and institutional disorder resulting from the chaotic policies of the Mao era, he started the Boluan Fanzheng program which brought the country back to order.

Deng initiated the historic Reform and Opening-up of China, launched the 863 Program for science and technology, established its nine-year compulsory education and resumed the National College Entrance Examination interrupted by the Cultural Revolution. He opened China to foreign investment and the global market, developing the country into one of the fastest-growing economies in the world and raising the standard of living of hundreds of millions. During his leadership, more people were lifted out of poverty than any other time in human history.



The present day CCP retains Dengism in terms of economic development and modernization under the governance of a one-party state, and that was never going to change. The west was foolish to believe that market economy reforms and its decision to fully bring the country into the fold of international trade would ever lead to a democratic China. The Politburo has also broken from Xiaoping policy in two major ways by scrapping presidential term limits with a strong nudge back towards cult of personality totalitarianism and the rejection of soft power foreign policy. The official line of "peaceful rise" and "regional harmony" is pure cringe predicated on submission to Sino supremacy, and that ultimately extends to the rest of the world.

One external policy goal of the regime is the exportation of its authoritarian model of governance around the globe and the state-run Xinhua news agency has been rather transparent about that. To the CCP, western political systems are associated with fractured societies, inefficient government, endless power transitions and high potential for social disarray. The possibility of political reckoning in China is extremely unlikely regardless of the government's highly repressive nature towards civil liberties from a westerner's perspective, and the population appears to be conditioned for authoritarian acquiescence with a younger generation and growing middle class apathetic to domestic politics. There's something of an unspoken pact between the ruling party and its people with a trade-off of continued prosperity and national achievement for staying out of politics.

Since a lynchpin of the party's legitimacy hinges on continued prosperity, they're rather shameless about currency manipulation, overbuilding, subsidization, product dumping, lack of reciprocity, forced technology transfers and the theft of intellectual property and industrial trade secrets. So much of China's system is based around throughput and maintaining employment, hence the wild investments all over the globe with Chinese nationals shipped in to work in foreign countries and an insane amount of domestic infrastructure projects with entire cities built in which nobody lives. This is also part of why news reports propaganda about the CCP looking to replace the USD as global reserve currency can be laughed off. The position carries a great amount of privilege but their setup is like one big vested interest against the capital inflows, reduced exports and increased unemployment that tends to be included with it.

Xi Jinping studied chemical enginerring at Tsinghua University and keenly understands the value of STEM. Since taking control of the party in 2012, he's launched a blizzard of institutional changes that include shifting priorities (and hundreds of billions) from a previous focus on late-stage product development towards fundamental/applied research and instigating policies to encourage investment in them; reforming evaluation systems, raising the budgets for R&D overheads, cutting bureaucratic red tape to give scientists more freedom with few ethics restraints and incentivization efforts to attract foreign talent from abroad. However, China is still rife with academic fraud and misuse of research grants despite a heavy crackdown effort and researchers there also tend to be fixated with pure output quantity. The PRC can take the global lead in both R&D expenditures and total output whilst actually remaining behind the US in high-impact quality.

And for what they can't achieve or innovate internally? That's the reason for the implementation of a top-down, decades-long, state-directed strategy of intransigent policies, acts and practices which both deliberately and indirectly undercut the output, competitiveness, investment, research, development, innovation and strategic domestically spawned industries of their geopolitical rivals. Many of those industries also serve as invaluable sources of high wage employment, global exports, sustained economic growth and national security for the countries being fleeced. In this case, first and foremost: the United States of America. As found by virtually every bipartisan commission and panel assembled over the last decade, including the IP Commission.

Where global trade is concerned, the OBOR Initiative - spanning more than 60 countries - is in the realm of hyperambitious in its attempt to gain control over the means of delivery. It's at least had the immediate benefit of forging stronger geopolitical ties, opening new markets for Chinese companies and provided continued demand for production with the larger agenda geared on reshaping the global economic order around China's interests wherein they wield a most advantageous position to dictate the terms of global trade. The CCP's system of industrial planning also allows them to coordinate the activities of myriad groups toward specific goals and this is a strategy implemented across every R&D field as well.

Also: Something, Uyghurs, Something.

Great post.

A good question would be, after the last 40 years, why would the Chinese want a different government?

 

[Deorum]

You've put my mind at ease comrade. For now!

I wanted to include this in the OP because it adds another layer of context to the core of things you're talking about, but you can probably see why it would've simply been too large to fit into one. I also wouldn't put it past the CCP to eventually invade Taiwan over TSMC.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/chips-for-america-industrial-high-tech-redux.4154496/

 

[Natural Order]

I wanted to include this in the OP because it adds another layer of context to the core of things you're talking about, but you can probably see why it would've simply been too large to fit into one. I also wouldn't put it past the CCP to eventually invade Taiwan over TSMC.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/chips-for-america-industrial-high-tech-redux.4154496/

Yes I read that thread, all of yours from New Years Day were great. I have loosely followed the narrative around their resource dependency for chipmaking which appears will hold them back on a lot of fronts for the forseeable future. Is their big push into Africa directly related to acquiring resources for chipmaking efforts?

 

[Deorum]

Yes I read that thread, all of yours from New Years Day were great. I have loosely followed the narrative around their resource dependency for chipmaking which appears will hold them back on a lot of fronts for the forseeable future. Is their big push into Africa directly related to acquiring resources for chipmaking efforts?

It isn't directly related on that particular front but I believe the CCP's moves (and motivation) on the African continent are probably best summed up by the former governor of Nigeria's central bank:

"Nigeria, a country with a large domestic market of more than 160m people, spends huge resources importing consumer goods from China that should be produced locally. We buy textiles, fabric, leather goods, tomato paste, starch, furniture, electronics, building materials and plastic goods. I could go on. The Chinese, on the other hand, buy Nigeria’s crude oil. In much of Africa, they have set up huge mining operations and have also built infrastructure. But, with exceptions, they have done so using equipment and labour imported from home, without transferring skills to local communities.

So China takes our primary goods and sells us manufactured ones. This was also the essence of colonialism. The British went to Africa and India to secure raw materials and markets. Africa is now willingly opening itself up to a new form of imperialism. The days of the non-aligned movement that united us after colonialism are gone. China is no longer a fellow underdeveloped economy - it is the world’s second biggest, capable of the same forms of exploitation as the west. It is a significant contributor to Africa’s deindustrialisation and underdevelopment."

@ElKarlo

Great post.

A good question would be, after the last 40 years, why would the Chinese want a different government?

Thank you. I don't think they do or would, at all. I have a lot of admiration for the CCP's ambition if nothing else. China is a 5,000 year old civilization-state coming to claim its "rightful place" in the world with an ascent to global prominence. The sense of national pride and purpose they've imprinted onto the populace is also pretty damn impressive. It's a fascist state, really. It was weird writing these lines for a couple reasons, and I'm not sure if it's really "in their view" so much as it is objective truth.

To the CCP, western political systems are associated with fractured societies, inefficient government, endless power transitions and high potential for social disarray.