There's been a flurry of posts, so I thought I'd give a quick recap for those trying to follow along. There's nothing new here, just a summary of what happened, what I've posted, and what the gym has responded with. This message is identical to the one I posted in the other thread, with the exception that the name of the 2nd rep has been replaced to "Eric", because I was informed that the gym representative posting publicly is Eric. If you want to read the gym's side of the story, I suggest reading Eric's posts in the "warning about" thread. As far as I can tell, he doesn't actually deny my accusations.
What happened: My roommate and I were shopping for a BJJ gym in Chicago. We took 1 class at 3 different gyms. To take a class at Carlson Gracie, the sales rep, Jimmy, said we had to sign a ridiculous contract that includes some nasty fine print. Jimmy promised we would not be billed unless we joined the studio. I wasn't too worried about it since I trusted the name behind the studio (stupid on my part), and lots of contracts these days contain ridiculous boilerplate. I decided after my 1 class that I did not want to join, and I informed Jimmy. He said no problem, I would not be billed. A couple days later, my roommate called Jimmy to confirm and again, Jimmy said neither of us would be billed.
Neither my roommate nor I ever returned to the studio. I made a bunch of BJJ related purchases around that time, including buying 2 new gis, so I didn't realize that the charge on my credit card was from Carlson Gracie (I was billed under TFC*MMA CHICAGO). I didn't notice the charges until recently. I immediately called the studio and left a message and sent an email. My email was very strongly worded, probably obnoxious, because I've seen this scam before and it really irritates me. Many gyms will make grand promises and then do whatever they can to keep billing you even after you cancel.
The only responses I got were from the 2nd rep and Eric. 2nd rep said he would work with me, and I should talk to Eric. Eric made it clear that without proof of cancellation, I was screwed. He didn't care about anything else. If he could legally get away with charging me, he was going to charge me. Eric said that 2nd rep has no authority in the matter.
I then did everything I could to contact someone else in management. I reached out to them on facebook, on twitter, and by email. Eric called this "harassment". I sent a total of about 8 messages all saying almost the same thing, "Got fraudulently charged by your studio. Please contact me to remedy the situation."
I got no response at all. Finally, I repeated to 2nd rep and Eric that I was going to take specific steps if no one got back to me, including warning other people publicly to avoid the same mistake I made.
When no one responded, I made good on my threat.
Eric's responses to my posts have been almost entirely repeating the same mantra: I signed a contract, I'm bound by it. Nothing else matters.
I don't disagree that I failed to cancel the membership in accordance with the fine print of the contract. My point is that I was repeatedly lied to by Jimmy and told that my membership was cancelled, and I don't want anyone else to fall for the same scam.
The latest update is that the owner of the studio reached out to me with an olive branch and requested a personal email. I responded in good faith, retelling my experience and offering to work with them to resolve this. He then posted the email on sherdog and has not responded to me.
You all will have to make up your own minds, but I suggest asking the following questions of Carlson Gracie Team MMA studio before joining:
Why are there many complaints about your deceptive billing and sales practices on various sites? (yelp, Better Business Bureau, other posters on Sherdog saying they had similar experiences). To find all the negative reviews, you have to look at other Carlson Gracie locations that are run by the same management company: "Top of the Food Chain"
Why do I have to sign a contract that directly contradicts what your sales representative is telling me?
Who actually teaches here regularly? (They heavily advertise that Carlson Gracie Jr teaches there regularly, but he does not).
EDIT: The gym's representative recently publicly added that if I had been civil, they would have offered me back 50% of my money charged for one month. So, after confirming that I was never a student and never attended a class, they were considering giving me back half of my money...if I was patient and asked nicely. That's exactly the dishonest business practice I'm trying to expose.
What happened: My roommate and I were shopping for a BJJ gym in Chicago. We took 1 class at 3 different gyms. To take a class at Carlson Gracie, the sales rep, Jimmy, said we had to sign a ridiculous contract that includes some nasty fine print. Jimmy promised we would not be billed unless we joined the studio. I wasn't too worried about it since I trusted the name behind the studio (stupid on my part), and lots of contracts these days contain ridiculous boilerplate. I decided after my 1 class that I did not want to join, and I informed Jimmy. He said no problem, I would not be billed. A couple days later, my roommate called Jimmy to confirm and again, Jimmy said neither of us would be billed.
Neither my roommate nor I ever returned to the studio. I made a bunch of BJJ related purchases around that time, including buying 2 new gis, so I didn't realize that the charge on my credit card was from Carlson Gracie (I was billed under TFC*MMA CHICAGO). I didn't notice the charges until recently. I immediately called the studio and left a message and sent an email. My email was very strongly worded, probably obnoxious, because I've seen this scam before and it really irritates me. Many gyms will make grand promises and then do whatever they can to keep billing you even after you cancel.
The only responses I got were from the 2nd rep and Eric. 2nd rep said he would work with me, and I should talk to Eric. Eric made it clear that without proof of cancellation, I was screwed. He didn't care about anything else. If he could legally get away with charging me, he was going to charge me. Eric said that 2nd rep has no authority in the matter.
I then did everything I could to contact someone else in management. I reached out to them on facebook, on twitter, and by email. Eric called this "harassment". I sent a total of about 8 messages all saying almost the same thing, "Got fraudulently charged by your studio. Please contact me to remedy the situation."
I got no response at all. Finally, I repeated to 2nd rep and Eric that I was going to take specific steps if no one got back to me, including warning other people publicly to avoid the same mistake I made.
When no one responded, I made good on my threat.
Eric's responses to my posts have been almost entirely repeating the same mantra: I signed a contract, I'm bound by it. Nothing else matters.
I don't disagree that I failed to cancel the membership in accordance with the fine print of the contract. My point is that I was repeatedly lied to by Jimmy and told that my membership was cancelled, and I don't want anyone else to fall for the same scam.
The latest update is that the owner of the studio reached out to me with an olive branch and requested a personal email. I responded in good faith, retelling my experience and offering to work with them to resolve this. He then posted the email on sherdog and has not responded to me.
You all will have to make up your own minds, but I suggest asking the following questions of Carlson Gracie Team MMA studio before joining:
Why are there many complaints about your deceptive billing and sales practices on various sites? (yelp, Better Business Bureau, other posters on Sherdog saying they had similar experiences). To find all the negative reviews, you have to look at other Carlson Gracie locations that are run by the same management company: "Top of the Food Chain"
Why do I have to sign a contract that directly contradicts what your sales representative is telling me?
Who actually teaches here regularly? (They heavily advertise that Carlson Gracie Jr teaches there regularly, but he does not).
EDIT: The gym's representative recently publicly added that if I had been civil, they would have offered me back 50% of my money charged for one month. So, after confirming that I was never a student and never attended a class, they were considering giving me back half of my money...if I was patient and asked nicely. That's exactly the dishonest business practice I'm trying to expose.
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