Carb supplement choice

G

Gavin LeFever

Guest
How do you select your carb(s)?

Simple carbs = fast digestion = good during/post exercise

Complex carbs = slower digestion = better for anytime (vs simple carbs)


In supplementation, such as your PWO or During-WO drink, what simple carbs are ideal?

Most guys who make their own mix use something like: (15g protein + 30-60g carb) * hours working out = your drink. The 1:2 or 1:4 ratio depends on how your body handles carbs, personally.

But what carb(s) to use? Dextrose is a common simple carb, but studies have shown that 30g of two different types of carbs digests better than 30g of a single type of carbs, hence the pairing of dextrose + maltodextrin vs. dextrose + more dextrose.

So the basics are protein (whey) + dextrose + maltodextrin.

The question is how does that compare to all the other carbs out there? There's making an oats powder, but that would be more complex so possibly better for MRP and not PWO? What of waxy maize starch (WMS)? Etc, etc..

Just ran out of my dextrose..
 
PWO I usually use only dextrose, should probably use maltodextrin as well, but I just never bought it. I do this heavy lifting days, and most conditioning days as well.

Sometimes I only use ground oats PWO. I usually do this when I do cardio/ light weight conditioning. Mostly because I feel like mixing it up/ burning fat.
 
Here's the way I look at it...

Most of the reasearch says we should have carbs in our peri-workout drinks. So lets say we should...

The research is split and inconclusive between high and low GI carbs, and the necessity of an insulin spike. So obviously, either one of these will lead you to a different ideal carb.

The only thing we know pretty much "for sure" is that we should have carbs...since even science can't agree on WHAT carbs, it is sort of pointless for us to debate it, except insofar as we can go with whatever anecdotal evidence our our experiences provide.

Of course, as we have all seen on these boards (as welll as in articles, blogs, etc.), the anecdotal evidence is even more scattered than the science.

So where does that leave us? Well, we need carbs. Some carbohydrate sources (****mucil, HFCS, pure fructose, for example) are just plain stupid. Most everything else seems to have merit.

And all of that^ is from the standpoint of insulin/GI, not to mention a whole plethora of other factors.

I guess my point is, personally, I try not to "out-do" the scientists with my own reasoning. At this point, I'd just say try different things and see what you like best.
 
I use powered Gatorade.

Why? Because it's cheap, readily available, flavored, has citric acid and dextrose, and it goes well with Whey Cooler style protein (or Orange Gatorade and Vanilla whey).

That's only if I'm doing longer duration workouts etc. Otherwise, oatsmuthermucker.
 
In the past, I've heavily favored dextrose and/or maltodextrin, based both on proven efficacy, theory of utilizing an insulin spike, and also, of course, on anecdotal efficacy.

As of the past 4 months, I've completely eliminated high-GI carbs pre/periWO, and only utilized fresh and frozen fruit in my PWO shake. Essentially, just fructose (OMG!!! Hes crazors!!11!11) and lactose from whole milk. I've noticed neither negative or positive benefits from this.

The next (potential) step in my mini-experiment is to eliminate high-GI carbs PWO, and start utilizing low-GI carbs; this is along the line of thinking that Xtrainer mentioned: the insulin spike is NOT needed due to enhanced PWO insulin sensitivity, low-GI carb sources with replace glycogen just as well, and there's potential long-term complications from intentionally spiking insulin.

As a note, I've not noticed any changes in performance or recovery from either method so far.
 
The next (potential) step in my mini-experiment is to eliminate high-GI carbs PWO, and start utilizing low-GI carbs; this is along the line of thinking that Xtrainer mentioned: the insulin spike is NOT needed due to enhanced PWO insulin sensitivity, low-GI carb sources with replace glycogen just as well, and there's potential long-term complications from intentionally spiking insulin.
Click to expand...

I'm channeling the spirit of STWACOACH:


COACH:
TOLD YA SO!!
Click to expand...
 
Haha, yeah. AT the time, I thought it was nuts, even if it did make sense. Gotta try it for myself, though.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that insulin spiking is being credited for a plethora of long term health problems, I'd probably just stick with the dex/malto.
 
I think it was alan aragon on the bodybuilding.com forums who said that he no longer cared about dealing with food GI because the payoff just wasn't there. It just doesn't seem to matter enough, even when you look at things in detail.

Since there is no conclusive agreement, you can expect that you are okay no matter which simple carb or carb mix you choose.
 
I remember a lot of what COACH said about spiking insulin is dumb and more hurt than help.

But I just figure that you're handling the insulin differently if you're actually working out.

But I'm sure both ways work. I do plan on dropping the spike next time I mix a tub.



You cut all your carbs out Pre/Peri-WO or just the simples? I feel I was taught to dislike the idea of a peri-workout drink with no carbs, but anything is possible.

Oh and @fruit, don't you know that eating fruit after exercise (when your body naturally produces antioxidants) may inhibit your body's ability to produce said anti-o's?
 
There's also a fair amount of glucose in most fruits... 50% on average?

To me, this is the bottom line...

You can benefit from high blood levels of glucose and amino acids during and after exercise. If you're using a during WO drink (which seems to be the most beneficial) then you're blood will already be high in glucose and amino's directly PWO. Therefore, downing another shit load of carbs that will digest in 15mins isn't necessary and if anything, could lead to making someone a fat ass. Consuming slow digesting, low GI carbs will ensure that your body has a steady state of glucose available during recovery. The body does have limits on its speed of utilization. I really don
 
Monger said:
There's also a fair amount of glucose in most fruits... 50% on average?

To me, this is the bottom line...

You can benefit from high blood levels of glucose and amino acids during and after exercise. If you're using a during WO drink (which seems to be the most beneficial) then you're blood will already be high in glucose and amino's directly PWO. Therefore, downing another shit load of carbs that will digest in 15mins isn't necessary and if anything, could lead to making someone a fat ass. Consuming slow digesting, low GI carbs will ensure that your body has a steady state of glucose available during recovery. The body does have limits on its speed of utilization. I really don
Click to expand...
 
ive currently given up the post-wo drink, since losing weight has been my main concern for the last few months. i drink a peri-wo shake of 60 G gatorade, 5 G added BCAA, 30 G protein, and 5 G creatine. after the workout, i eat a full regular meal with maybe 30-40 grams of whole food carbs, usually oats (+ of course a whole food protein source as well as healthy fats), an hour after the training session. its helped in fat loss, and ive noticed no decreases in energy while training. ive even set quite a few PRs while doing this style. i think a peri-wo high carb drink can actually replace a post-wo drink assuming a full meal is consumed around an hour after training, at least in my experience it is.
 
Is the assumed long term health detriment from insulin spiking based on studies centered around a single daily spike? Other than the highly rational situation of increased triglyceride storage due to higher levels of insulin with enhanced PWO sensitivity, what other problems are we talking about here?

And I do remember the huge argument between Coach and Madmick a long time ago about the value of low-GI carbs peri-WO. I guess his ghost is coming back to haunt us.
 
Fight_Song said:
You cut all your carbs out Pre/Peri-WO or just the simples? I feel I was taught to dislike the idea of a peri-workout drink with no carbs, but anything is possible.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm not taking in anything as far as Accelerade, malt/dex, Endurox, WMS, preWO or during my workout. I'm just timing my whole food meal a few hours before (90 minutes min), and then throwing a scoop of whey in my coffee before the workout. During, I'm just drinking water.

This is HUGELY different than what I've done in the past, with large amounts of carbs pre/during/post, and I understand it goes against the grain of mainstream sports nutrition. Just trying it out for myself.

Fight_Song said:
Oh and @fruit, don't you know that eating fruit after exercise (when your body naturally produces antioxidants) may inhibit your body's ability to produce said anti-o's?
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of exercise-induced oxidation and adaptive responses---I posted those studies regarding PWO antioxidants, remember? :D I don't supplement with antioxidants right now in light of said studies, but like I said, I'm using fresh and frozen fruit PWO; I think it can easily be said that a banana and a handful of frozen mixed berries is a LOT different than 400iu of vitamin E and 1000mg of vitamin C. The PWO fruit is something I've always done, so it's really not a deviation from my regular diet.

Essentially, I've just cut simple carbs, and (unrelated to the topic at hand) removed supplemental PWO antioxidants, and am slowly ramping my dietary fat intake up. But don't worry, there's no fear that I'm going to start hugging trees and wearing hemp clothes.
 
It just occured to me that different PWO carb strategies may very well be dependent on body type. Given the article I read recently by Berardi on macronutrient tolerance vis-
 
MikeMartial said:
Yup. I'm not taking in anything as far as Accelerade, malt/dex, Endurox, WMS, preWO or during my workout. I'm just timing my whole food meal a few hours before (90 minutes min), and then throwing a scoop of whey in my coffee before the workout. During, I'm just drinking water.

This is HUGELY different than what I've done in the past, with large amounts of carbs pre/during/post, and I understand it goes against the grain of mainstream sports nutrition. Just trying it out for myself.
Click to expand...


what about whole food meals? do you eat another whole food meal at a certain time following training? im tempted to try this myself, and am wondering how you go about nutrition during the supposed "magic window" of 60-90 minutes after training.
 
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