CAPOEIRA (info, video, etc.)

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Capoeira is a really nice, visually appealing art, and the way it can be practiced for fun, in a circle with music is awesome.

While it certainly has fighting roots, I'm worried that many of the fighting aspects have been forgotten nowadays, when it is primarily a non-fighting art.

Does anyone know how often capoeira is actually practiced as a fighting art, with a fighting focus nowadays? Every capoeira students I've met practiced it only as a dance. Perhaps Brazilians will know this better?

Not bashing, just trying to give the conversation a turn.

 

[Brazilian HKD]

some info

capoeira was until a few years ago considered a ritual, not a dance, nor an art, was considered something who only bandits would do (in other words, had a bad reputation due to 1. racism , 2. only poors did it)

they had some capoiera vs other arts in the first vale tudos in the 30's

but documentatio is rare....

there are documents that show a newspapers saying about a japanese judo(sado miako) guy fighting a capoeirista (called ciriaco) were the japanese lost in 1909

there is a very interesting documented story confirmed by michel de serdan, a pro wrestler, and a nother guy who wrote to VEJA one of the most important magazines here

the story is that when helio and his brother were trying to prove that graciejj was the only martial art, they got a son of carlos to fight a capoeirista... the capoeirista kicked the gracie out of the ring, in front
of helio...everybody was seeing helio's face to see his reaction..and then a tear droped from this eye, he spitted in his nephew's face, and left

true or not is an interesting history

later, his son stated to the magazone that after some years this capoeirista was caught in an agression were the gracies decided to revenge the loss all against him at once

there is another fight documented by magapi were rickson invited a capieirsta to fight one of his students and the capoeirista won

bittetti, a famous bjj black belt, was koed by mestre hulk another capoeirista

there are some capoeiristas stll in vale tudo like rafael capoeira

in jornal nacional in 1998 a news program in tv showed a forbidden capoeira tournament

one of the guys took a kick to the body and later died, so there are capoeira tournaments with contact and even groundfighting

here is a nice article
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_rodrigues_0800.htm

 

[ShadowNINku]

Capoeira is a really nice, visually appealing art, and the way it can be practiced for fun, in a circle with music is awesome.

While it certainly has fighting roots, I'm worried that many of the fighting aspects have been forgotten nowadays, when it is primarily a non-fighting art.

Does anyone know how often capoeira is actually practiced as a fighting art, with a fighting focus nowadays? Every capoeira students I've met practiced it only as a dance. Perhaps Brazilians will know this better?

Not bashing, just trying to give the conversation a turn.

it actually began as more traditional and in the mid 20th century a more combat based form emerged with less emphasis on the actrobatics and more on simple kicks

 

[sc0rpion]

I must agree with most good comments on this thread to the bad ones if you have never seen Capoeira live you must believe me you will think twice about shooting in on an advanced player! my son has started Capoeria under Prof. Israel Costa from the Bahia region of Brazil ( now teaching in the uk ) he also does valetudo with myself inc bjj muaythai etc my sons balance timing and cardio have gone though the roof sparring wise no one will shoot on him any more as the last kid to do so was dropped by a Meia lua - spinning back heel the speed of this kick I can only compare to Benny the jets jump spinning back kick its intense many people think that Capoeira is only kicking and acrobatics this is a myth its a complete art with groundwork knees elbows and open palm strikes this blends very well ith muay thai and bjj, in sparring the players can use either Angola style ( old school ) or regional ( new improved more acrobatic) the skill is not to hit your opponent or out fox him with deceitful techniques. Now regarding fighting there are tournaments full contact in brazil for Capoeria, still if any one doughts this art then I suggest they challenge a player to a nhb fight and see how well they fair because trust me after seeing this art fist hand its opened my eyes!

 

[Sinister]

I must agree with most good comments on this thread to the bad ones if you have never seen Capoeira live you must believe me you will think twice about shooting in on an advanced player! my son has started Capoeria under Prof. Israel Costa from the Bahia region of Brazil ( now teaching in the uk ) he also does valetudo with myself inc bjj muaythai etc my sons balance timing and cardio have gone though the roof sparring wise no one will shoot on him any more as the last kid to do so was dropped by a Meia lua - spinning back heel the speed of this kick I can only compare to Benny the jets jump spinning back kick its intense many people think that Capoeira is only kicking and acrobatics this is a myth its a complete art with groundwork knees elbows and open palm strikes this blends very well ith muay thai and bjj, in sparring the players can use either Angola style ( old school ) or regional ( new improved more acrobatic) the skill is not to hit your opponent or out fox him with deceitful techniques. Now regarding fighting there are tournaments full contact in brazil for Capoeria, still if any one doughts this art then I suggest they challenge a player to a nhb fight and see how well they fair because trust me after seeing this art fist hand its opened my eyes!

Good post. I hope your son goes Pro at-least for a little while to continue to debunk the "TMA's are useless" aspect where Capo is concerned. A-la David Loiseau and his TKD roots. I had a conversation with a customer yesterday who said his roots were in Gung Fu but he wanted to abandon it to learn another completely different style to be more viable of an MMA practitioner. I maintained there was no reason to abandon Gung Fu entirely. Just learn to defend yourself in the multiple-dimensions of MMA, adapt yoru techniques to be practical for full-speed combat, and you can keep your roots in practically any Art. Practically. There are some Arts that just beg to be flushed down the toilet though. Capoeira is hardly one of them.

 

[Matt Thornton]

I think I probably said this before, but even if you're not using Capoeira directly in MMA, it's an awesome workout and I think it'll make you a lot better in both grappling and striking. I recently bought a book on Capoeira conditioning so I can work my way up to some of the more acrobatic movements. The base-level conditioning for Capoeira reminds me of a cross between Yoga and bodyweight exercises. My spine is already getting a lot more flexible, and I'm working my way up to being able to do a handstand pushup. At the higher levels, it doesn't just build strength and flexibility, but speed, explosiveness, anaerobic and aerobic endurance, agility, balance, and overall athleticism. All of this in a fun, free-moving, self-expressive, rhythmic workout, as opposed to the same old rigid running routine, putting one foot in front of the other, whether sprinting or running.

Capoeira is just awesome.

 

[Matt Thornton]

I'm going to start a new thread giving you the information I got out of this book. I love saving fellow Sherdoggers money when I can.

 

[Gregster]

I imagine capoeira has largely gone the way of TKD: an excellent, even devastating fighting art if you can learn it as a fighting art...but good luck finding a maestre who's teaching capoeira from a combative angle. In my observation, it's mostly taught as a great way to build cardio, endurance, flexibility, etc much like TKD tends to be in the suburbs.

Regarding the question of whether or not it's simply some ritualistic dance and not a fighting art: it's the latter, no question. Capoeira is a pastiche of African fighting arts brought over to Brazil by slaves, who melded the moves together and disguised them as dance, setting the sparring to music, so as to appear as though they were practicing energetic African dances (dance being one of the few outlets of recreation and fitness allowed slaves in both North *and* South America). Make no mistake, it was intended to be used to fight, and often was.

While it seems to be preserved largely as a cultural artifact in Brazil, it's worth noting that in recent years, Brazilian cops have been cracking down on capoeiristas performing rodas for the tourists as a way to make chump change as many of the matches have gotten heated and devolved into actual combat, resulting in injuries to the performers and to bystanders (clearly, you can hurt people doing it).

 

[sc0rpion]

but good luck finding a maestre who's teaching capoeira from a combative angle

Prof. Israel Costa brazilain uk based

In my observation, it's mostly taught as a great way to build cardio, endurance, flexibility, etc much like TKD tends to be in the suburbs.

have you ever been to a class? if yes who was the instructor?

Regarding the question of whether or not it's simply some ritualistic dance and not a fighting art: it's the latter, no question

plz see the latter


No disrespect but from your martial arts background ( Taekwondo, Hapkido, Aikido, Boxing, Kendo, Kung Fu ) and at present you say you have no school I think that you are not able to comment regarding capoeira as all your above arts would not last 5 min in an mma
competition mixed together or a capoeira competition dont believe me? ask to fight a capoeira player then post

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Plus that fight between Liu Kang (Robin Shou) and Reptile (Keith Hirabayashi/Cooke, who you probably remember as he won like EVERY title there was to win in Karate in the 80's), was a thing of beauty.

I like the fight between Scorpion and J.Cage in the first movie in the Tibetan burial ground.

 

[Gregster]

Prof. Israel Costa brazilain uk based



have you ever been to a class? if yes who was the instructor?




plz see the latter


No disrespect but from your martial arts background ( Taekwondo, Hapkido, Aikido, Boxing, Kendo, Kung Fu ) and at present you say you have no school I think that you are not able to comment regarding capoeira as all your above arts would not last 5 min in an mma
competition mixed together or a capoeira competition dont believe me? ask to fight a capoeira player then post

Kindly re-read my post and notice I a) was not saying capoeira was ineffective in fighting, b) did in fact state quite clearly I thought it was effective, and c) that my impressions of where capoeira is today were just that-- my impressions-- and not me claiming anything as fact. I do not doubt that capoeira is an effective fighting style; to be sure, from what I've seen of skilled practitioners, I think a well-trained capoeira fighter would be hell to reckon with.

The worst I had to say about it was that I had the impression that in general, as it is commonly taught, it is geared more towards fitness and not fighting. I would say the same about TKD, which I learned from an instructor who taught fighting and not the "McDojo bullshit" that TKD haters on this board always mention whenever anyone talks about TKD here.

I'm not disrespecting, don't be so defensive. Thanks.

P.S. Boxing has been used a lot in MMA. And has been discussed in the "Crow" thread, TKD techniques have also found their way into the octagon and been effective.

 

[Sinister]

No disrespect but from your martial arts background ( Taekwondo, Hapkido, Aikido, Boxing, Kendo, Kung Fu ) and at present you say you have no school I think that you are not able to comment regarding capoeira as all your above arts would not last 5 min in an mma

Yeah, you'd do good not to say this kind of crap in the Stand-up forum. The boys don't take too kind to it. And out of all of those the only two that are really applicable (as Aikido taught in it's traditional sense is actually to be paired with the sword Arts of the Samurai, as well as Kendo) and Hapkido and Gung Fu have never really been fully represented by reputable practitioners (to my knolwedge), Boxing and TKD have fared rather well WHEN represented by reputable and SMART pracitioners.

 

[sc0rpion]

YAWN we all know what arts work and what arts don't early ufc & valetudo taught us this what annoys me is when people diss arts they know nothing about like capoeira which IMO could stand toe toe with muay thai " THE only 100% effective ring and street tested stand up art in the world!) dont believe me fight a capoeira player! I have!!
oh btw when was the last time you saw a boxer win an mma tournament he would get his fucking legs kicked out period! and when was the last time a kung fu guy won anything other than a kungfu tournament? I have dabbled in most arts to some degree on my own path to be a complete martial artist and I have deciphered as many have that you need a mix of many well mainly 2 to be affective on the street or in the ring! but its like making a recipe that tastes good YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT MIX!.

Look guys im not tring to troll im just speaking my mind this is a fourm people will disagree and have there own opinions this is what makes for a good thread!.

 

[Sinister]

oh btw when was the last time you saw a boxer win an mma tournament he would get his fucking legs kicked out period! and when was the last time a kung fu guy won anything other than a kungfu tournament?

I'm going to let you slide on some of the things you say because despite some slightly unnecessary tendencies you seem to be halfway intelligent.

As far as Boxers. This is a slightly hypocritical statement. Reason being is there are two guys I can think of off the top of my head who had very good bases in Boxing who did rather well in MMA. One is Don Frye. Don both Boxed and Wrestled, and held his own rather well. Another is Jens Pulver. But of course someone who is a detractor is going to say "oh but they trained in other Arts as well." No shit, that's called adapting, and that's also why it's called MMA. This is another form of hypocrisy I hate. That it's okay for a grappler or someone who "practices MMA" to learn how to Box or kick, but if a Boxer learns anything but Boxing people want to say he has to be dismissing Boxing because it sucks and is in-effective. Which is of course, a stupid notion. A person can learn skills to be able to adapt, and still be based in their root style. Like Loiseau is with TKD, like Chuck is with kickboxing, and so on and so forth.

Now you want to get into newer guys? Stephan Bonnar's main roots lie in Boxing as well. And he's doing alright for himself being new to the sport. Rashaad Evans is also primarily a mix of specifically Boxing/Wrestling and is doing well for himself.

About the early UFC's. They didn't teach is shit about styles. Because the representatives of the styles then were not the World's best at those styles. Save for one, the representative of Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Even the men who reigned back then had to have had some success even before the UFC's came around. Shamrock had been fighting in Japan pretty successfully, Severn was already a Champion Wreslter. But the guys who repped stand-up Arts were lackluster to say the least. But the ones like Pat Smith who were at any point slightly above-average, did well-enough considering.

Your experience notwithstanding...the theory that MMA should only be comprised of equal parts A and B and possibly C, where those things are specific Arts and not variables, has long-been disproven.

 

[sc0rpion]

Look dude we are getting off the subject here of capoeria this is THE only reason im posting on this thread I have no intenetion of getting in to a flame war over mma politics esp with a moderator it sets a bad example for the forum oh and plz lay off the personal attacks
or you will have to yellow card yourself!

 

[Sinister]

There were no personal attacks whatsoever in my posts. If you consider "unnecessary tendencies" a personal attack, or "hypocritical statement" a personal attack then I'd say lighten up just a bit.

Remember, I began addressing you with compliments to both you and your son. Just be wary of the kinds of things you say around here. There's a difference between sharing experiences versus being abrasive to some of the Arts the regulars here enjoy.

 

[phenomfan1529]

im currently training capoeira and having fun with it! alot of the basic kicks are kinda similar to muay thai and TKD kicks. i dont plan on training in capoeira for a long time mainly because im learning under my cousin's best friend who has been doing capoeira for years (hes from brasil) and hes only gonna be in town for a couple more weeks.

i do plan on incorporating capoeira in my stanup game.

 

[Rinksterk**]

I forgot in which UFC and who the fighters were, but I do remember a match with a brazilian guy who knew capoeira. His base was BJJ, but sometimes broke into these weird spinning kicks where he kicked really high by touching the mat with his hands. He was never successful with them. You could see the kicks coming from a mile away. Actually his opponent anticipated and rushed in for a takedown after one of them. I think the caporeira move could've worked the first time because it was just so unexpected.

 

[Stompede]

yeah, that sounds to me as the biggest problem with Capoeira. That the kicks that they use, seems to be so "telegraphed" and easily avoided.

I know i saw 1 MMAfighter who used capoeira. Anyone know what his name is?

 

[edo]

I believe Genki Sudo dabbled in Capo.

But I think Capo is one of those thigns I deeply respect who can pull of those moves at such amazing speed, its something when you see someone performing capo, you can tell they put a good amount of training in it.

I actually wouldnt mind seeing more people use Capo in MMA, I really love the smooth pace it can provide for someone.