CAPOEIRA (info, video, etc.)

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Matt Thornton, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    In response to the "What is the best kicking art?" thread, which completely overlooked Capoeira.

    Now, before I go into it, just know that in my opinion, if you use an art like TKD or Capoeira, I really believe it should be added to a solid base of Muay Thai, Boxing, K-1 Style Kickboxing, San Shou/San Da, Kyuk Too Ki (Korean version of Muay Thai and San Shou), or other styles that are more prominent or adaptable in MMA. But of course, a lot of people will disagree with me on that, and that's okay.

    While a lot of people immediately think about TKD as the kicking martial art, don't discount Capoeira. It has a lot of weird moves, but if you look into the history of it, it's not half bad for kicking.

    I barely see any punches when I watch a Capoeira roda. A lot of it is gymnastics, but there is a great deal of kicking. It's such an elusive and unorthodox style, that some of its moves could probably be used pretty well.

    Maybe have some boxing added to this, I'd like to see some of it used.

    Here's a website that shows a lot of the Capoeira basic fighting moves, and the purpose behind them.

    http://www.wu-wien.ac.at/usr/h96b/h9650297/cap-basics.html#chapacosta

    Also, I have a 5 minute video of a Capoeira roda, which I put up through YouSendIt. If it gets popular enough, please put it up on RapidShare.

    NOTE: If you watch the video, be aware that this is a roda; a non-contact event. Basically it's like dancing, where Capoeira artists get in the circle and "fight" without touching. From what I understand there really isn't a winner. It's like a hybrid between martial arts and just a dance party. Which IMO is pretty cool. The kicks and moves look lame and not dangerous because in a roda, the idea is to show what you can do and what you know, but without hurting each other. So they're intentionally going really light with some of those kicks. Capoeira in a fight would look much faster and harder.

    CAPOEIRA RODA 2004



    I just thought that was important to stress because if you watch this video thinking "This is what Capoeira would look like in MMA" you'd probably laugh. They're intentionally going light with those kicks.

    One of the coolest things I think about Capoeira, is the concept of the Ginga. I haven't seen it in any martial art, but I think it's right up Bruce Lee's alley. The idea is to not keep a fixed stance, but to continually flow and move. It's distracting to your opponent, and because you're always moving your entire body, like a dance, you're unpredictable.

    From the website I linked to:

    "Ginga: the most basic movement of Capoeira. Instead of taking a fixed stance, you have to keep moving all the time; all the other moves derrive from this dance-like pattern. Ginga becomes soon second nature and provides great potential for unpredictable 3D movement and fake attacks."

    Definitely check out some of the stuff like the negativa; it's comparable to an undercut (or cut kick) in Muay Thai, but more like a baseball slide. Sure to send your opponent crashing to the mat in a pretty unpleasant manner.

    I could be totally wrong, but I think the ginga directly aids in Capoeira's effectiveness. If your opponent takes a more fixed stance, moves like jump-spinning kicks become more visible, because you're able to watch his body. But if you're constantly moving, and I don't mean small movements, I mean FLOWING, your opponent can't really tell what the hell you're doing. So it allows for more complicated and spectacular kicks because to be good at Capoeira you have to learn how to be totally unpredictable.

    I think that a good Muay Thai fighter would probably beat a Capoeira artist. But adding Capoeira to Muay Thai or boxing, that would be a really cool combo. Using the ginga when you're outside of kicking or takedown range, and then moving in either with a Capoeira attack or with boxing.
     
  2. Mr_Black

    Mr_Black Green Belt

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    thanks, nice read .
     
  3. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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  4. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Capoeira is totally awesome. I love watching it. Sometimes I see dudes at the park doing it (while I'm out walking with the family) and I always check it out.

    I think this is the art Ninja and Shogun used to do/still do, right?

    Here is the deal with flashy moves like those seen in TKD and Capoeira. People act like the practitioners think these are the best moves to throw in a fight. I mean why else would people practice it if they weren't going to use it as their 'go to' move in a fight right?

    I love, for example, practicing 360 spinning hook kicks and sidekicks. But I'd never use them if I found myself in an Octagon (in that case I'd probably use the climbing over cage move). Okay. In all serious I'd probably use my hands, a couple of really strong kicks, the guard (if I got taken down), etc. I would never throw a 360 hook kick.

    Some moves are practiced for fun. It is like going off a jump when you are riding your bike. It doesn't help you win the bike race, but it is fun. It also gives you massive style points.

    When Shogun beat Arona EVERYONE remembers that jump spinning kick he used. Not because it allowed him to win the fight but because it was like, "OMFG this guy has some serious balls! That was awesome!!!"

    It would almost be the same if some dude in a mountain bike race did a 360 off a jump. Everyone would be saying, "Shit! That dude could have lost the race if he spilled it. But he didn't give a shit. Amazing..."

    All that being said I think fancy moves are good for multiple reasons. 1) They are awesome agility drills. 2) They are a good workout when you are bored with the same old same old. 3) They can be the unexpected move that gets your opponent thinking "I have no idea what this bastard is going to throw next! It could be anything..."
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The funny thing about this Aaron is that even a lot of the fancy crap in Capoeira DID actually have a function. Anyone who knows the History of the Art knows this is a battle-tested Art, not some frilly form of dance someone turned into a fighting Art during peace-time. In-fact quite the opposite, the reason it resembles dance and nowadays IS dance is because that was the only way it's practitioners could survive when slave-drivers began simply taking large groups of men, hunting, and shooting Bantu Tribe practitioners of the early form of this Art.

    I love how this generation of youngsters nowadays tries to shit all over things that they have no idea about really. They just see clips of forms tournaments or movies and say "psshh...yeah that shit would never EVER work in real fight."

    I still and will always maintain pretty much ANY technique CAN be used in battle, it's just a matter of when and how, proper timing, speed, accuracy, balance, etc. If a guy fails at it either he did it wrong or at the wrong time.
     
  6. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Exactly. The moves in TMAs theoretically do work. Like the quote goes (I forget who made it), "Jiu Jitsu is perfect. Humans make mistakes."

    Like all of the moves I learned when I did kenpo. Theoretically, those moves do work. It's just the lack of sparring and experience that makes it unrealistic for someone to actually pull off that move.

    At this point I feel like the way to make any art effective is to utilize moves and concepts from it in MMA sparring. I will be studying some Capoeira on my own and I will take the first chance I get to use a compasso kick in sparring.
     
  7. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Heh heh...

    Yes. I knew about the slave roots. This is another reason why it is so kicking based, correct?

    You misunderstand me. I am definitely not saying fancy moves don't have their place. I don't dismiss them as just dance. What kind of TKD practitioner would I be if I thought that?

    My main point was that people see fancy moves and think, "Oh. This art is all about flash and no substance."

    You often see this come up in the Muay Thai versus TKD threads. They act like TKD is all jump spinning this or that while Muay Thai is straight forward basic and powerful techniques.

    I don't know much about Muay Thai but I'd guess it really goes beyond the Teep and the round kick. Similarity TKD is not just jumping flashy stuff.

    I even have a saying for kids who ask me if we are going to 'do anything fun tonight?' I tell them, 'Yep. You're in luck. We'll be working on FUNdamentals like we always do...
     
  8. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    There is a movie called Only the Strong which features this martial art. Not sure how accurate it is.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107750/

     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I was actually trying to agree with you and disagree with anyone who would dispite the point we agree upon before they disagreed with it. lol If that makes any sense.

    b0b - The REAL Stars of Only The Strong are the Capoeira practitioners you see for 5 minutes at the beginning of the movie and 5 minutes at the end. I have those two sequences isolated and I could do without the whole rest of the damn movie. And I LIKE Marc Dacascos. To even LOOK halfway legitimate at Capoeira is tough and he's a Hell of an athlete, but gah his acting is almost painful.

    On a semi-related note though if no one has seen the live-action version of Crying Freeman (the Manga series) starring Dacascos, check it out. It's actually good.
     
  10. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    It talks about other stuff, like the importance of the music, etc. It is definitely not worth paying money for. I just dropped in here if anyone wants to drop it in their Netflix queue or something.
     
  11. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

  12. stav

    stav Brown Belt

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    man this stuf def looks the PWN!! i dont see y u would NOT want to learn it hehe it rox for show :)
     
  13. The Sickness

    The Sickness Ichizoku

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    I still practice capoeira. It was the first martial art I got into besides western boxing growing up. I love the workout, it's fun, the cardio is great, and the dynamic strength and flexability. Every now and again, I'll throw an armada in training, or move in a ginga. Just to throw cats off and keep it fun
     
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    I actually liked Only the Strong. What can I say...I'm a martial arts geek.

    And I was impressed with Dacascos too (I think his father teaches in Oregon). I mean the guy is a good athlete and, as you put it, was able to look somewhat legitimate.

    He really does a bad job playing the tough guy, however. He just has too much of a nice guy look. Playing the charismatic teacher works...playing the bad ass out for revenge is just painful to watch.
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I know what you mean about Martial Arts geek. Though I criticise movies hard these days (a result of going to Film School), you're lookin' at a guy who PAID to see Double Dragon...in theatres. Don't ask me why.
     
  16. Matt

    Matt Titanium Belt

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    Nice to see a Capoeira thread that hasn't unraveled into a Capoeira bashing thread, for a change.
     
  17. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Not while I'm around muh brotha.
     
  18. Matt

    Matt Titanium Belt

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    KK is all over it!
     
  19. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    Okay. Even *I* didn't do that!

    ;)

    Plus I hated all of those Mortal Combat movies that were basically martial arts 'lite' movies. Give me early Bruce Lee (before Enter the Dragon) and I'm happy...

    Man...I'm really digressing with this thread...

    Sorry to the thread starter....
     
  20. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He asked for it, this is a thread about a Martial Art, and videos thereof. We're not TOO far off-base. When I saw the MK movies in-theatres it was cool just because. I was only like 17 at the time I think, maybe younger. And when Scropion and Sub Zero showed up the place went apeshit.

    Plus that fight between Liu Kang (Robin Shou) and Reptile (Keith Hirabayashi/Cooke, who you probably remember as he won like EVERY title there was to win in Karate in the 80's), was a thing of beauty.
     

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