can you spot the pattern here?

[Dionysian]

this ^ only time UFC gets to pick its ref is outside the US other wise its the commissions who pick, if you think you see a pattern there is... its call lazy government bureaucracy of state nobodies...who are not voted in but Appointed.

I don't understand what you're saying really.

So because the commission are lazy bureaucrats they pick SPECIFICALLY only Herb Dean SPECIFICALLY for fights involving marketing stars for the UFC? Their laziness then abates when Conor/Jon/Sean aren't fighting and then they use the other 42 refs?

 

[markg171]

I’m sure it’s just a total coincidence that you only looked up 3 dudes who became champions decades apart from one another.

And none of all the other ones in between.

Total coincidence on data choices I’m sure.

 

[markg171]

Next you’ll tell me that Pereira secretly got Herb Dean at 300 so he could stop Herb from stopping the fight for Hill’s nut shot on him and catch Hill by surprise.

4D chess.

 

[Dionysian]

I’m sure it’s just a total coincidence that you only looked up 3 dudes who became champions decades apart from one another.

And none of all the other ones in between.

Total coincidence on data choices I’m sure.

I looked up the three most obvious choices of fighters where the UFC would want to sway the outcome of their fights. I'm sorry I looked at the guys where your org's corruption is happening. Sure it would have made you feel better if I looked at undercard fighters who frequently get the other 42 refs that the UFC uses. Oh wait a minute, that shows exactly why the corruption is happening... it DOESN'T happen for those outside the marketing stars that fight fixer Dean officiates all their bouts.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

Just confirming with stats what everyone who isn’t a UFC shill already knows.

It’s pretty much indisputable at this point… Herb is paid for. It’s quite obvious.

Good work though!

 

[IIIIIIII]

if what the threadstarter is implying is true, then it means herb dean doesn't make mistakes. what seems like obvious blunders aren't. a referee as senior as him should be a lot better, generally speaking. it's definitely something to monitor for future fights.

 

[markg171]

I looked up the three most obvious choices of fighters where the UFC would want to sway the outcome of their fights. I'm sorry I looked at the guys where your org's corruption is happening. Sure it would have made you feel better if I looked at undercard fighters who frequently get the other 42 refs that the UFC uses. Oh wait a minute, that shows exactly why the corruption is happening... it DOESN'T happen for those outside the marketing stars that fight fixer Dean officiates all their bouts.

You’ve literally got another thread right now saying the UFC also tried to “make” Gane and Pereira champions but magically didn’t include them here.

Or again, all the other fighters they’ve heavily pushed which is a hell of a lot more than Jones in 2011, Conor in 2015, and Sean in 2023.

It’s almost like you didn’t actually want to investigate this and so quit at you 3 fighter sample pool.

 

[tritestill]

Would have never noticed.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Hey TS, if you really want to do your homework, don't limit the statistics to just three fighters.

I'm curious what % of main event fights Herb refs. I would expect it to be pretty high. The three fighters you mentioned have done tons of main events.

It takes a huge logical leap to go from he's reffed a lot of their fights to he's fixing them.

I have a hard time accepting as "evidence" of fight fixing a ref saying "watch your fingers" or "let's work."

I mean on the one hand you have people criticizing Merab, for "hugging his way to a win," and on the other hand you have people saying Herb was fixing the fight for O'Malley by telling them to work lol.

 

[oscerthegrouch]

I don't understand what you're saying really.

So because the commission are lazy bureaucrats they pick SPECIFICALLY only Herb Dean SPECIFICALLY for fights involving marketing stars for the UFC? Their laziness then abates when Conor/Jon/Sean aren't fighting and then they use the other 42 refs?

i saying that its not the UFC doing it but commissions.... there was a time Dana praised Nevada commission had allies then ... doesn't anymore.. i sure UFC tries to influence them why they have main cities they hit... but state then not UFC. shrugs

 

[Doughie99]

I looked at three fighters widely viewed by the UFC to be up and coming marketing stars who then became champions (Conor + Jon + Sean) then I looked at what refs those people got in their fights. The timeline goes from their most recent fight back to when they were first viewed as an emerging star. Notes in green mark specific events that may have changed the UFC's outlook towards that fighter. I can't figure out if there's a pattern but maybe you can help me by looking at the timelines:

CONOR:
Dustin 3 – HERB (couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards)
Dustin 2 – HERB (Dustin complained post-fight about Herb’s bias allowing Conor to cheat in-cage)
Cerrone – HERB (arguably the one time Herb wasn’t even needed, but he was there anyway)
Khabib – HERB (arguably most documented instance of fight doctoring via a ref allowing cheating... possibly in all of MMA history)
Eddie – Big John
Diaz 2 – Big John
Diaz 1 - HERB
Aldo – Big John
Mendes – HERB (he made repeated critiques of Chad whenever he got Conor down about how Chad had to “watch fingers”)
Siver – HERB
Dustin 1 – HERB
CONOR VERDICT: 100% of all fights in the past 6 years have been Herb Dean. 73% of all fights in the last decade (8 out of 11). 100% of all controversial fights (involving reffing) have included Dean.

JON:
Gane - Goddard
Reyes – Mirg (don't worry, Herb wasn't there but the judges were)
Santos – HERB (don’t worry, Herb couldn’t determine the ending but the judges could)
Smith – HERB (if Smith tried to milk the DQ win and pull an Aljo I bet my life savings Herb would have overruled it)
***Around this time Jones states that he doesn’t want Beltran or Big John to ref his fights any longer***:

Jon Jones on issues with officials: 'It won’t matter who's the referee' at UFC 247

Jon Jones defends his UFC light heavyweight title against Dominick Reyes on Saturday, Feb. 8.

www.pressconnects.com

““I have not (made any requests), but I’ve had some (expletive) situations happen in there,” Jones said. “I felt like I’ve had guys that were very obviously not on my side in that ring”” He never gets either ref ever again. To compensate him, his next 2 fights he gets the pre-151 treatment and gets… you guessed it… Dean.
Gus 2 - Beltran
DC 2 – Big John
***UFC 200 falls apart due to Jon testing positive for steroids / goes back in the doghouse and notice who isn't his ref any longer...***
OSP – HERB (Originally scheduled to be Jon vs DC 2 / DC petitioned to have Herb removed as ref: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/u...but-herb-dean-will-referee-ufc-197-main-event)
DC 1 – HERB
***Jon is promoted as legend in lead-up to DC fight / he comes out of the UFC doghouse***
Glover – Mirg
Alex 1 – Big John
Sonnen – short guy whose name I don’t know
Belfort – Big John
***Jon refuses to fight at UFC 151 vs Hendo / Dana publicly blames him for the event collapsing / Herb then mysteriously stops reffing Jones fights***
Rashad – HERB
Machida – Big John
Rampage - Rosenthal
Shogun - HERB
Bader – HERB
Vlad – HERB
Vera – HERB
JON VERDICT: Jon got Herb to ref 69% of his fights (9 out of 13) while he was in the UFC's good graces. He had Herb ref 0% of his fights (0 out of 6) while he was in the UFC doghouse. PS... I bet my life savings that Herb refs the Jon vs Stipe fight.

SEAN:
Merab – HERB (attempt to skew the fight if only Sean did anything better than get dominated 50-45. But the groundwork was laid… the 48-47 score card waiting for Sean to win a single round in order to give him the SD, the attempt by Herb to prep the point deduction after nonsensically saying “let’s work” 80 times while Merab was dominating)
Chito 2 – short guy (forget his name)
Aljo – HERB (early stoppage)
Yan – Herzog (don’t worry, Herb wasn’t there but the judges were)
Munhoz – Herzog
Paiva – Herzog
Moutinho – HERB / one of the most obvious examples of a doctored stoppage in MMA history. Moutinho losing but not hurt in the slightest. With mere seconds to go in the fight Herb inexplicably ends the fight despite Moutinho not being hurt, dropped, wobbled… NOTHING. Showed that literally all Sean needs is the right ref and to land any punch for a stoppage victory. Clear example of Herb "fight fixer" Dean changing the actual result (UD) to a KO for marketing purposes.
Almeida – some guy I don’t know
Chito 1 – HERB (couldn't save him there of course)
Wineland – HERB
SEAN VERDICT: 50% of all Sean fights since he became a star have been with Herb Dean. 100% of all controversial officiating (not counting judging) occurred with Dean.

There were 43 referees used by the UFC last year. 9 of them used frequently: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/lists/ufc-referees-oversaw-most-fights-2023
Of those 43 referees, a single referee absolutely, utterly dominated the reffing for three superstars. That lone referee was responsible for nearly 100% of the controversies benefiting those superstars. There was never a single controversy that benefited the challenger to that marketing star.

I feel like there is a pattern here but I can't see it.

This is quality investigative journalism.
Great post.
I've been saying this stuff about Dean for years, just never went into the detail you presented.
It's absolutely corruption IMO.

Like you said.... It's not even in the slightest bit subtle. It's blatant and I think speaks to UFC's (almost) absolute power. They clearly tell the commission which ref they would,.... aah..... REALLY Like to see.... for certain important fights.
And frankly if I was the FBI or the IRS (err, I'm not, honest) I'd be wanting to see all uncle herbs bank accounts including offshore stuff, cayman islands, blah blah.

I agree with whoever it was who said this thread should be pinned. It should, this stuff is important, shouldn't be allowed to scroll off-screen.

 

[BowserJr]

Dude if Herb is the ref for JBJ ve Stipe I'm dusting off my tin foil hat I wore last week and coming back here!

 

[Dionysian]

But how about other big fights? How many of those have HERB?

I can spoil it to you all. He is there a LOT

Most of those were main events.

Isn't Herb the go to guy for main events though?

You should have a control group with other former champs (like Izzy or Volk) to compare results.

Updated / check the second post of the thread. Pretty clear pattern we're dealing with, no?

I’m sure it’s just a total coincidence that you only looked up 3 dudes who became champions decades apart from one another.

And none of all the other ones in between.

Total coincidence on data choices I’m sure.

As much of a coincidence as a TKO employee like you posting in defense of their corruption in a thread like this, like you've done in 8000 other threads.

No... it isn't a coincidence. It is direct evidence that when marketing favorites are in play Herb's chance to ref the fight that needs fixin goes through the fucking roof. Check out the second post in the thread. I used a control group to see Herb's percentage: spoiler alert... my case just got stronger. Now spin me another defense / your corporation must be disappointed with you for the fact you pushed me to gather even MORE data on their corruption.

 

[Dionysian]

Next you’ll tell me that Pereira secretly got Herb Dean at 300 so he could stop Herb from stopping the fight for Hill’s nut shot on him and catch Hill by surprise.

4D chess.

Alex got Dean because he's one of the biggest stars in the sport and is a clear marketing favorite. Which is why Alex has gotten nothing but Dean since after he became LHW champ and a marketing star. Why tee things off for me to make it so easy?

You’ve literally got another thread right now saying the UFC also tried to “make” Gane and Pereira champions but magically didn’t include them here.

Or again, all the other fighters they’ve heavily pushed which is a hell of a lot more than Jones in 2011, Conor in 2015, and Sean in 2023.

It’s almost like you didn’t actually want to investigate this and so quit at you 3 fighter sample pool.

Whoops! Looks like daring me do even MORE research didn't pan out so hot for TKO PR? You deserve a pay cut.

Hey TS, if you really want to do your homework, don't limit the statistics to just three fighters.

I'm curious what % of main event fights Herb refs. I would expect it to be pretty high. The three fighters you mentioned have done tons of main events.

It takes a huge logical leap to go from he's reffed a lot of their fights to he's fixing them.

I have a hard time accepting as "evidence" of fight fixing a ref saying "watch your fingers" or "let's work."

I mean on the one hand you have people criticizing Merab, for "hugging his way to a win," and on the other hand you have people saying Herb was fixing the fight for O'Malley by telling them to work lol.

Updated brother. Check out the second post / looks pretty damning. Took some time for me to make that edit since I've been busy with work, but hey, it is a statistically valid point and I do what the people of Sherdog want.

i saying that its not the UFC doing it but commissions.... there was a time Dana praised Nevada commission had allies then ... doesn't anymore.. i sure UFC tries to influence them why they have main cities they hit... but state then not UFC. shrugs

So why would commissions use Herb at a completely different frequency specifically for fights that the UFC has a clear preference for who wins the fight?

Herb's % of fights he refs doubles as soon as there is a UFC interest in who wins / even when you look at only main events to control for the "but Herb is a superstar" logic.

This is quality investigative journalism.
Great post.
I've been saying this stuff about Dean for years, just never went into the detail you presented.
It's absolutely corruption IMO.

Like you said.... It's not even in the slightest bit subtle. It's blatant and I think speaks to UFC's (almost) absolute power. They clearly tell the commission which ref they would,.... aah..... REALLY Like to see.... for certain important fights.
And frankly if I was the FBI or the IRS (err, I'm not, honest) I'd be wanting to see all uncle herbs bank accounts including offshore stuff, cayman islands, blah blah.

I agree with whoever it was who said this thread should be pinned. It should, this stuff is important, shouldn't be allowed to scroll off-screen.

Thanks man

Dude if Herb is the ref for JBJ ve Stipe I'm dusting off my tin foil hat I wore last week and coming back here!

On a serious note, now that Jon is overt that he is retiring after the fight that may impact the chance that Herb is the ref. Jones was a clear marketing favorite yes but we all know how Dana feels about fighters trying to quit the UFC.

 

[Doughie99]

Alex got Dean because he's one of the biggest stars in the sport and is a clear marketing favorite. Which is why Alex has gotten nothing but Dean since after he became LHW champ and a marketing star. Why tee things off for me to make it so easy?

Whoops! Looks like daring me do even MORE research didn't pan out so hot for TKO PR? You deserve a pay cut.

Updated brother. Check out the second post / looks pretty damning. Took some time for me to make that edit since I've been busy with work, but hey, it is a statistically valid point and I do what the people of Sherdog want.

So why would commissions use Herb at a completely different frequency specifically for fights that the UFC has a clear preference for who wins the fight?

Herb's % of fights he refs doubles as soon as there is a UFC interest in who wins / even when you look at only main events to control for the "but Herb is a superstar" logic.

Thanks man

On a serious note, now that Jon is overt that he is retiring after the fight that may impact the chance that Herb is the ref. Jones was a clear marketing favorite yes but we all know how Dana feels about fighters trying to quit the UFC.

Yeah I mean from the UFC perspective they absolutely do not want Stipe to win that fight as it wrecks Dana's "Jon is GOAT" mantra. So whichever ref does that fight I can see potentially an early stoppage in Jon's favor etc.
Well let's see what happens. I still think there's a good chance one gets injured again before the November date.

 

[muaythaibeast]

Yes, like all "good" conspiracy theories, it doesn't make any kind of concrete claim of any kind.

I thought the claims were very clear. UFC brass is using its influence to ensure Herb Dean is selected to referee fights in which they have a vested interest in the outcome, and Herb Dean has acted to attempt to influence those fights towards that desired outcome.
You can argue if the statement is true, but the statement was very clear.

 

[BabyBlue_Bomber]

Sounds about right…

Dean is a veteran. He should be the person in there for the big fights.

 

[humdizzle]

can never trust herb

 

[markg171]

Updated / check the second post of the thread. Pretty clear pattern we're dealing with, no?

As much of a coincidence as a TKO employee like you posting in defense of their corruption in a thread like this, like you've done in 8000 other threads.

No... it isn't a coincidence. It is direct evidence that when marketing favorites are in play Herb's chance to ref the fight that needs fixin goes through the fucking roof. Check out the second post in the thread. I used a control group to see Herb's percentage: spoiler alert... my case just got stronger. Now spin me another defense / your corporation must be disappointed with you for the fact you pushed me to gather even MORE data on their corruption.

Alex got Dean because he's one of the biggest stars in the sport and is a clear marketing favorite. Which is why Alex has gotten nothing but Dean since after he became LHW champ and a marketing star. Why tee things off for me to make it so easy?

Whoops! Looks like daring me do even MORE research didn't pan out so hot for TKO PR? You deserve a pay cut.

Updated brother. Check out the second post / looks pretty damning. Took some time for me to make that edit since I've been busy with work, but hey, it is a statistically valid point and I do what the people of Sherdog want.

So why would commissions use Herb at a completely different frequency specifically for fights that the UFC has a clear preference for who wins the fight?

Herb's % of fights he refs doubles as soon as there is a UFC interest in who wins / even when you look at only main events to control for the "but Herb is a superstar" logic.

Thanks man

On a serious note, now that Jon is overt that he is retiring after the fight that may impact the chance that Herb is the ref. Jones was a clear marketing favorite yes but we all know how Dana feels about fighters trying to quit the UFC.

You really got the UFC that they let Alex KO Jiri again by having Herb ref him instead of Goddard did like last time.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Next to Big John, Herb is the most recognizable ref and is trusted by fans and fighters.

So they use him a lot in the big fights because he's earned it. They trust him.