can you spot the pattern here?

Most of those were main events.

Isn't Herb the go to guy for main events though?

You should have a control group with other former champs (like Izzy or Volk) to compare results.
 
Dionysian said:
I didn't ask you to refute my opinions genius, I asked you to discuss the facts: the undeniably absurd percentage of times that Herb was officiating marketing-favorite fighters as they were being pushed by the UFC. Instead of discussing that (because then you'd have no way to dismiss me) you tossed out a one-liner that tried to change the topic. Color me surprised.

Thanks for pulling the Francis history for me. Hard disagreement though on Mr. Ford Escort himself NOT being a marketing favorite however (will address that in a second).

Check out the last part of the OP: so it appears that despite having 43 refs in 2023 they really rotated the hell out of 9 in particular (one being Herb). That highlights your point that seeing Herb a healthy amount shouldn't be a shocker, correct. However, it doesn't address the HUUUUGE discrepancy between his frequency lording over consequential fights/decisions in particular (as in: the kind the UFC might especially have an interest in determining the outcome of) relative to the other 8 guys UFC commonly used. I would love to see stats of how many total fights Herb reffed in UFC history divided by the total UFC fights in history. Whatever that percentage is, I can guarantee you that it is nowhere in the fucking universe of the numbers I stated in the OP (literally one guy covering somewhere between 50 to 100 percent of fights depending on the fighter and time period).

Back to your post though, remember that Francis was a heavy marketing favorite in the exact timeframe you posted. He was promoted as the future champ prior to the first Stipe fight. Remember his coronation and then Dana acting like a bitch when Stipe won the first time? Stipe certainly did, to the point that he refused to let Dana put the belt around him. That through Stipe 2 they maintained that promotion until Francis winning was portrayed as the future overtaking the past and UFC HW finally being set straight. The same old PR suspects on here then promoted Francis as the GOAT HW, like they did every single HW champ since 2009 in an effort to make newer fans dismiss Fedor. Of course the same posters then tossed Francis into the trash when he left and they got their new marching orders from corporate.

Interesting thing about Francis is he's a particularly hard guy to involve in fixed fights: either he flatlined his opponent right away or fizzled out to the point where he lost a decision where he looked bad. Despite that difficulty, to your point, Herb "fight fixer" Dean reffed 63% (5 out of 8) of Ngannou's fights during the time when the UFC was promoting Francis the most.
Click to expand...
Lol oh no you figured out they like to use herb “the fixer” for title fights! Amazing job bud. Wont be responding anymore you have way too much emotion invested in this. Hope you feel better bud.
 
"I'm going to need you to get your toes out of the cage and let's work. Do not bring me in and make me a factor in this fight."
 
This reminded me of the recent fight were a judge of a fight was removed by Dana & he literally picked/assigned the replacement judge.

Wouldn't that have to be done via the commisions also ?

🍿👀
 
But how about other big fights? How many of those have HERB?

I can spoil it to you all. He is there a LOT
 
Herb is simply the biggest most solid option the commissions have that's why they keep giving him main events.

Of course, Herb is actually terrible and not solid at all but that's not how the commissions see it. To them he is a proven ref they can throw main events on.

It's not surprising he has way more main events than anyone else. He's on the mount Rushmore top right now as far as the commissions sees it and the other refs aren't there yet.
 
Dionysian said:
I looked at three fighters widely viewed by the UFC to be up and coming marketing stars who then became champions (Conor + Jon + Sean) then I looked at what refs those people got in their fights. The timeline goes from their most recent fight back to when they were first viewed as an emerging star. Notes in green mark specific events that may have changed the UFC's outlook towards that fighter. I can't figure out if there's a pattern but maybe you can help me by looking at the timelines:

CONOR:
Dustin 3 – HERB (couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards)
Dustin 2 – HERB (Dustin complained post-fight about Herb’s bias allowing Conor to cheat in-cage)
Cerrone – HERB (arguably the one time Herb wasn’t even needed, but he was there anyway)
Khabib – HERB (arguably most documented instance of fight doctoring via a ref allowing cheating... possibly in all of MMA history)
Eddie – Big John
Diaz 2 – Big John
Diaz 1 - HERB
Aldo – Big John
Mendes – HERB (he made repeated critiques of Chad whenever he got Conor down about how Chad had to “watch fingers”)
Siver – HERB
Dustin 1 – HERB
CONOR VERDICT: 100% of all fights in the past 6 years have been Herb Dean. 73% of all fights in the last decade (8 out of 11). 100% of all controversial fights (involving reffing) have included Dean.

JON:
Gane - Goddard
Reyes – Mirg (don't worry, Herb wasn't there but the judges were)
Santos – HERB (don’t worry, Herb couldn’t determine the ending but the judges could)
Smith – HERB (if Smith tried to milk the DQ win and pull an Aljo I bet my life savings Herb would have overruled it)
***Around this time Jones states that he doesn’t want Beltran or Big John to ref his fights any longer***:

Jon Jones on issues with officials: 'It won’t matter who's the referee' at UFC 247

Jon Jones defends his UFC light heavyweight title against Dominick Reyes on Saturday, Feb. 8.
www.pressconnects.com www.pressconnects.com
““I have not (made any requests), but I’ve had some (expletive) situations happen in there,” Jones said. “I felt like I’ve had guys that were very obviously not on my side in that ring”” He never gets either ref ever again. To compensate him, his next 2 fights he gets the pre-151 treatment and gets… you guessed it… Dean.
Gus 2 - Beltran
DC 2 – Big John
***UFC 200 falls apart due to Jon testing positive for steroids / goes back in the doghouse and notice who isn't his ref any longer...***
OSP – HERB (Originally scheduled to be Jon vs DC 2 / DC petitioned to have Herb removed as ref: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/u...but-herb-dean-will-referee-ufc-197-main-event)
DC 1 – HERB
***Jon is promoted as legend in lead-up to DC fight / he comes out of the UFC doghouse***
Glover – Mirg
Alex 1 – Big John
Sonnen – short guy whose name I don’t know
Belfort – Big John
***Jon refuses to fight at UFC 151 vs Hendo / Dana publicly blames him for the event collapsing / Herb then mysteriously stops reffing Jones fights***
Rashad – HERB
Machida – Big John
Rampage - Rosenthal
Shogun - HERB
Bader – HERB
Vlad – HERB
Vera – HERB
JON VERDICT: Jon got Herb to ref 69% of his fights (9 out of 13) while he was in the UFC's good graces. He had Herb ref 0% of his fights (0 out of 6) while he was in the UFC doghouse. PS... I bet my life savings that Herb refs the Jon vs Stipe fight.

SEAN:
Merab – HERB (attempt to skew the fight if only Sean did anything better than get dominated 50-45. But the groundwork was laid… the 48-47 score card waiting for Sean to win a single round in order to give him the SD, the attempt by Herb to prep the point deduction after nonsensically saying “let’s work” 80 times while Merab was dominating)
Chito 2 – short guy (forget his name)
Aljo – HERB (early stoppage)
Yan – Herzog (don’t worry, Herb wasn’t there but the judges were)
Munhoz – Herzog
Paiva – Herzog
Moutinho – HERB / one of the most obvious examples of a doctored stoppage in MMA history. Moutinho losing but not hurt in the slightest. With mere seconds to go in the fight Herb inexplicably ends the fight despite Moutinho not being hurt, dropped, wobbled… NOTHING. Showed that literally all Sean needs is the right ref and to land any punch for a stoppage victory. Clear example of Herb "fight fixer" Dean changing the actual result (UD) to a KO for marketing purposes.
Almeida – some guy I don’t know
Chito 1 – HERB (couldn't save him there of course)
Wineland – HERB
SEAN VERDICT: 50% of all Sean fights since he became a star have been with Herb Dean. 100% of all controversial officiating (not counting judging) occurred with Dean.

There were 43 referees used by the UFC last year. 9 of them used frequently: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/lists/ufc-referees-oversaw-most-fights-2023
Of those 43 referees, a single referee absolutely, utterly dominated the reffing for three superstars. That lone referee was responsible for nearly 100% of the controversies benefiting those superstars. There was never a single controversy that benefited the challenger to that marketing star.

I feel like there is a pattern here but I can't see it.
Click to expand...

Good job. Different types of colour on the text and everything.

No go outside and get some fresh air. Daylight. Even better: go for a light run.
 
Dionysian said:
I looked at three fighters widely viewed by the UFC to be up and coming marketing stars who then became champions (Conor + Jon + Sean) then I looked at what refs those people got in their fights. The timeline goes from their most recent fight back to when they were first viewed as an emerging star. Notes in green mark specific events that may have changed the UFC's outlook towards that fighter. I can't figure out if there's a pattern but maybe you can help me by looking at the timelines:

CONOR:
Dustin 3 – HERB (couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards)
Dustin 2 – HERB (Dustin complained post-fight about Herb’s bias allowing Conor to cheat in-cage)
Cerrone – HERB (arguably the one time Herb wasn’t even needed, but he was there anyway)
Khabib – HERB (arguably most documented instance of fight doctoring via a ref allowing cheating... possibly in all of MMA history)
Eddie – Big John
Diaz 2 – Big John
Diaz 1 - HERB
Aldo – Big John
Mendes – HERB (he made repeated critiques of Chad whenever he got Conor down about how Chad had to “watch fingers”)
Siver – HERB
Dustin 1 – HERB
CONOR VERDICT: 100% of all fights in the past 6 years have been Herb Dean. 73% of all fights in the last decade (8 out of 11). 100% of all controversial fights (involving reffing) have included Dean.

JON:
Gane - Goddard
Reyes – Mirg (don't worry, Herb wasn't there but the judges were)
Santos – HERB (don’t worry, Herb couldn’t determine the ending but the judges could)
Smith – HERB (if Smith tried to milk the DQ win and pull an Aljo I bet my life savings Herb would have overruled it)
***Around this time Jones states that he doesn’t want Beltran or Big John to ref his fights any longer***:

Jon Jones on issues with officials: 'It won’t matter who's the referee' at UFC 247

Jon Jones defends his UFC light heavyweight title against Dominick Reyes on Saturday, Feb. 8.
www.pressconnects.com www.pressconnects.com
““I have not (made any requests), but I’ve had some (expletive) situations happen in there,” Jones said. “I felt like I’ve had guys that were very obviously not on my side in that ring”” He never gets either ref ever again. To compensate him, his next 2 fights he gets the pre-151 treatment and gets… you guessed it… Dean.
Gus 2 - Beltran
DC 2 – Big John
***UFC 200 falls apart due to Jon testing positive for steroids / goes back in the doghouse and notice who isn't his ref any longer...***
OSP – HERB (Originally scheduled to be Jon vs DC 2 / DC petitioned to have Herb removed as ref: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/u...but-herb-dean-will-referee-ufc-197-main-event)
DC 1 – HERB
***Jon is promoted as legend in lead-up to DC fight / he comes out of the UFC doghouse***
Glover – Mirg
Alex 1 – Big John
Sonnen – short guy whose name I don’t know
Belfort – Big John
***Jon refuses to fight at UFC 151 vs Hendo / Dana publicly blames him for the event collapsing / Herb then mysteriously stops reffing Jones fights***
Rashad – HERB
Machida – Big John
Rampage - Rosenthal
Shogun - HERB
Bader – HERB
Vlad – HERB
Vera – HERB
JON VERDICT: Jon got Herb to ref 69% of his fights (9 out of 13) while he was in the UFC's good graces. He had Herb ref 0% of his fights (0 out of 6) while he was in the UFC doghouse. PS... I bet my life savings that Herb refs the Jon vs Stipe fight.

SEAN:
Merab – HERB (attempt to skew the fight if only Sean did anything better than get dominated 50-45. But the groundwork was laid… the 48-47 score card waiting for Sean to win a single round in order to give him the SD, the attempt by Herb to prep the point deduction after nonsensically saying “let’s work” 80 times while Merab was dominating)
Chito 2 – short guy (forget his name)
Aljo – HERB (early stoppage)
Yan – Herzog (don’t worry, Herb wasn’t there but the judges were)
Munhoz – Herzog
Paiva – Herzog
Moutinho – HERB / one of the most obvious examples of a doctored stoppage in MMA history. Moutinho losing but not hurt in the slightest. With mere seconds to go in the fight Herb inexplicably ends the fight despite Moutinho not being hurt, dropped, wobbled… NOTHING. Showed that literally all Sean needs is the right ref and to land any punch for a stoppage victory. Clear example of Herb "fight fixer" Dean changing the actual result (UD) to a KO for marketing purposes.
Almeida – some guy I don’t know
Chito 1 – HERB (couldn't save him there of course)
Wineland – HERB
SEAN VERDICT: 50% of all Sean fights since he became a star have been with Herb Dean. 100% of all controversial officiating (not counting judging) occurred with Dean.

There were 43 referees used by the UFC last year. 9 of them used frequently: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/lists/ufc-referees-oversaw-most-fights-2023
Of those 43 referees, a single referee absolutely, utterly dominated the reffing for three superstars. That lone referee was responsible for nearly 100% of the controversies benefiting those superstars. There was never a single controversy that benefited the challenger to that marketing star.

I feel like there is a pattern here but I can't see it.
Click to expand...

Preach it brother!
Herb started giving me that vibe only when he allowed Conor to cheat for 4 rounds straight vs Khabib.
And yes, there is a pattern.
 
sonhow said:
But how about other big fights? How many of those have HERB?

I can spoil it to you all. He is there a LOT
Click to expand...
Is it more than 50%? I'll bet my house the answer is no. But by all means get the actual data... show me the last 50 main events and how many were reffed by Dean. It'll take you all day but I'd love to see it. If my thread is full of it, Dean will ref more than half of them. If the number is much lower (which we all know it is obviously) then you'd have to try to explain why the UFC chooses specifically him to ref the vast majority of fights specifically with a marketing favorite the UFC would prefer to win.
usernamee said:
Herb is simply the biggest most solid option the commissions have that's why they keep giving him main events.

Of course, Herb is actually terrible and not solid at all but that's not how the commissions see it. To them he is a proven ref they can throw main events on.

It's not surprising he has way more main events than anyone else. He's on the mount Rushmore top right now as far as the commissions sees it and the other refs aren't there yet.
Click to expand...
See above. I'd bet my house the % is nowhere near what it is for fights the UFC has an interest in changing the outcome. There is no way Herb single-handedly refs more than 50% of main events. Only one way to find out, and unfortunately I don't have an extra day to do it. See above though... that would settle it straight up.
Frode Falch said:
Good job. Different types of colour on the text and everything.

No go outside and get some fresh air. Daylight. Even better: go for a light run.
Click to expand...
I don't get what that means sorry.
Holyherb420 said:
Lol oh no you figured out they like to use herb “the fixer” for title fights! Amazing job bud. Wont be responding anymore you have way too much emotion invested in this. Hope you feel better bud.
Click to expand...
You never actually entered the conversation to begin with shit-for-brains, so don't pretend that you're now leaving something you weren't involved in. You posted a nonsensical one-liner and now declared your exit with another one-liner. Thanks for your riveting contribution though / better luck next time.
Ozze said:
Most of those were main events.

Isn't Herb the go to guy for main events though?

You should have a control group with other former champs (like Izzy or Volk) to compare results.
Click to expand...
Good idea. See above / best way would be to see last 50 main events and then see the % Herb reffed. Too bad there isn't a data set for it / needs to be done manually which is a pain in the ass. If there is no difference then the data should reflect Herb refs more than half of all MEs under normal conditions. I'll go out on a limb and say that no way one ref officiates the majority of the entire org's main events however. That appears to only be the case when it comes to marketing star fights.
 
Dionysian said:
You're welcome brother

Herb Dean is corrupt. He is EXTREMELY DISPROPORTIONATELY assigned fights of marketing stars specifically because he has shown over and over that he pushes the results in the UFC's favor. I thought the claim was pretty damn concrete from the OP but I guess I had to spell it out?
Click to expand...
"in the favor of the UFC"

"The UFC" was not a fighter in any fight listed. So, yeah, maybe you should have spelled it out, because, as expected, the specific claim is pretty idiotic.

I also like how a ton of your "examples" are fights without controversy, or none form Dean, or ones where you speculate what you THINK HE MIGHT HAVE done to be corrupt, but he didn't.

Which all fits the M.O. of conspiracy nonsense.
 
fzoid4454 said:
"in the favor of the UFC"

"The UFC" was not a fighter in any fight listed. So, yeah, maybe you should have spelled it out, because, as expected, the specific claim is pretty idiotic.

I also like how a ton of your "examples" are fights without controversy, or none form Dean, or ones where you speculate what you THINK HE MIGHT HAVE done to be corrupt, but he didn't.

Which all fits the M.O. of conspiracy nonsense.
Click to expand...
You probably thought saying a multi-billion dollar corporation isn't a fighter sounded good before you wrote it but nah, saying that non-fact makes no point. Obviously the multi-billion dollar corporation that owns a monopoly over their sport has more leverage over that sport than any fighter/human being and your nonsensical point that Ari Emmanuel doesn't personally fight in the octagon has no meaning.

I listed multiple examples among just three fighters where Herb fixed the fight and pointed out that one guy officiates nearly all the fights for marketing stars. If you want me to go outside of that example, I could be here all day: the auto-stoppage when Rhonda dropped McMann + the BS stoppage of a guy giving a thumbs up #1 (marketing favorite Askren at the time vs Lawler) + the BS stoppage of a guy giving a thumbs up #2 (marketing favorite branded as #1 P4P at the time Brandao vs Faber) + the auto-stoppage when marketing enemy Fedor was dropped etc etc. This shit was literally on full display on Saturday and you're here defending it lol. Again... funny how I can cite examples where Herb's decision making benefited the desired outcome of what the UFC wanted. Funnier still is you can't cite any example where Herb's decision making clearly HURT the outcome the UFC wanted. Not one time has Herb ever called a fight for the marketing challenger when they land a punch on the favorite, like he blatantly did for Sean vs Moutinho. If he was truly NOT corrupt, and just incompetent, there'd be examples on both sides of the coin, right? But there isn't... there is only call after call after call after call benefiting the outcome the UFC wants, coupled with the fact that Herb time after time after time after time is magically the one guy that officiates the most relevant fights where the UFC has an interest in one guy winning?

Now bust out the tin foil memes and character attack one-liners, because that is all you got. The facts themselves clearly support my position. You can't refute the absurd percentage of Herb magically being the only ref (out of 43 total) that officiates every Conor fight, and nearly every Sean/Jon fight. So all you CAN do is attack me personally for you getting pissed at the facts.
 
Last edited:
Lepo Lepo said:
Go complain to the commissions who assign referees to fights. A large majority of these are within the states, where the UFC isn’t assigning (unless secretly doing through the commission).

I also think Herb sucks. But there are real slim pickings it seems.
Click to expand...
this ^ only time UFC gets to pick its ref is outside the US other wise its the commissions who pick, if you think you see a pattern there is... its call lazy government bureaucracy of state nobodies...who are not voted in but Appointed.
 
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