Calling Old School MMA Fans and/or MMA Trivia Buffs: Need Help with Royce Gracie/Matt Hughes Quote

[Xuh]

I remember seeing quotes to that effect attributed to Helio. That was on forums then though, I didn't read it 'first hand' in an article and I can't find anything about it now.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

You banned me for multiple years with no evidence of wrong doing.

I could help you but I won't.

Haha the salt is real

 

[Paolo Delutis]

All you need to know is

This is Royces house ..he build it

 

[cunglaowins]

I would watch the rematch.

Royce looked like a malnourished concentration camp survivor. Then got busted for steroids in his next fight

 

[NuPakUSA]

I was there at the Pond I believe. It was a night of wrestling with BJJ. It was destruction and humiliation. Hughs beat Royce in every aspect of the fight. Hughs mounted Royce both hooks, Royce turned over gave Hughes his back, Hughes got a straight arm kimura, Royce arm was about to snap like a twig, so Hughes showed sympathy and just battered him on top of his head until ref broke it up by way of ground and pound and not by submission, which had nothing to do with his win, but a near broken arm. Hughes was 34 and Royce was 37, so not much difference.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I recall Matt talking about the fight, and saying something like "I could put his hand wherever I wanted to, and you shouldn't be able to do that to a JJ black belt."

I watched that fight and felt certain Hughes would win easily, though I was a huge fan of Royce.

But then he popped

 

[Ken Fresno]

Safe to say @D 1 Wrestler is a Rickson Gracie Google Black Belt

 

[Bullitt68]

You banned me for multiple years with no evidence of wrong doing.

I could help you but I won't.

Seriously, though: Your account is from February 2010 and I became a mod September 2009, which means that I, personally, literally couldn't have banned you for multiple years.

Sure. But just because you lay the first stone does not mean you build the pyramid.

A better analogy would be coming up with the best way to lay the foundation for pyramid building. Pyramid building may evolve, and there may even be tweaks to the original method of laying foundations, but it all goes back to them.

By the time of Royce vs Hughes, the MMA evolution had taken on a life of its own — long divorced from the Gracies. Saying that all these techniques are Gracie Jiu-Jutsu is disingenuous and incongruous considering the multiple iterations that MMA had been evolving through since they ruled the field, which isn't really encapsulated or acknowledged in their statement.

Then again, Miletich learned his shit from Renzo and Hughes learned his shit from Miletich. I don't think you can get that Gracie divorce as easy as you think

I mean, even in Ken vs Royce 2 someone figuered out how to beat a Gracie, getting a Draw solely due to time-limit. And all it took was Ken knowing he was fighting a BJJ guy instead of a Karate guy like he thought the first time.

That whole fight was a disaster all the way around, from the last-minute time limit (probably the suits convincing Rorion because Severn/Gracie ran over the PPV time slot and they had to refund a ton of money) and Ken refusing to alter the strategy that he'd devised for a three-hour fight while Royce refused to initiate any offense and tried to wait Ken out. It's really too bad that Ken gave Royce so much respect, because, in all honesty, he could've/should've done to Royce at UFC 5 what Hughes did to him at UFC 60.

Yes, I hate the Gracies, okay!?

I get it. As a "family business," they can be quite odious. But I have so much respect for Rorion's vision and the way that he made his dream a reality, I have so much respect for the idea of the Gracie Challenge, and I have so much respect for the way that Royce served as a long overdue bubble-burster to all the hocus pocus in the martial arts world.

Hughes got a straight arm kimura, Royce arm was about to snap like a twig, so Hughes showed sympathy

I recall Matt talking about the fight, and saying something like "I could put his hand wherever I wanted to, and you shouldn't be able to do that to a JJ black belt."

It's really a fascinating fight from multiple angles. From this angle, it's fascinating because it's one of the rare fights where even one of the fighters bought in to the hype. During Hughes' post-fight interview in the cage, you can see it on his face and hear it in his voice how utterly flabbergasted he was that he was able to maul Royce like that. He really thought that Royce was some kind of submission magician and he couldn't believe how easy it was to shut Royce down, overpower him, and pound him out. Then you go to the very next UFC with Tito/Ken II and let's just say that was a lot less surprising

 

[blaa_kriger]

Tank me later OP, the link is dead though:

www.gracieacademy.com/ufc.htm

UFC 60 - Royce Gracie Loses but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Wins When discussing the "secret" to the success of the Gracie Family, Helio Gracie once said, "It is not the Gracie's who are amazing people, it is Gracie Jiu-Jitsu that is amazing. This jiu-jitsu of ours is not exclusive to us, anyone who is dedicated enough to thoroughly study and understand it will be empowered far more then they could ever be without it." Helio Gracie spent his entire life perfecting the techniques of what we now refer to as Brazilian or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

Because of his physical frailness, he was forced to develop techniques that relied more on proper timing and use of leverage then on brute strength or explosiveness. Once he had perfected the technique to a certain point, his objective was to teach other so that they could have a realistic chance of defending themselves against a stronger more athletic opponent. His children and nephews followed the tradition of spreading the knowledge of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in an attempt to help as many people as possible, and with hopes of sharing these techniques to the world, Rorion Gracie, his oldest son, left Brazil to get established in the United States in 1978.

When Rorion got established in Southern California he realized that there were many forms or martial arts being practiced in the U.S. all of which claimed to prepare the practitioner or student for a real street fight or confrontation. The problem was that because the representatives of these various disciplines never officially crossed paths, there was no way of knowing which style was most effective for a real fight. 1993 the Rorion Gracie created the Ultimate Fighting Championship for one very simple reason-to answer the age old question, "Which martial art is most effective for a real street fight?" His hope was to give the people of the world a chance to witness, once and for all, the representatives of different styles competing against one another so that they, the viewers, could decide for themselves which styles were designed for sportive competition, flashy movie scenes or a real street fight.

Representatives from all of the most well known disciplines: Karate, Tae kwon do, Kickboxing, Judo, Wrestling, Shoot fighting, Sumo, etc. were invited to compete in this single elimination 8 man tournament in which one individual would have to defeat 3 others in the same night to be declared the Ultimate Fighting Champion. In order to make each fight as similar to a real street fight as possible, there were no rules and no time limits, the fights would continue until someone gave up or passed out. Rorion selected Royce Gracie to represent the family's art due to the fact that Royce was not a big strong athlete which would allow the average viewer to appreciate the efficiency of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. He shocked the world when he defeated all three of his opponents with the methodical techniques of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. What was most amazing is that he did this even though all of his opponents were heavier and stronger then him. Royce went on to win 3 UFC titles and by doing so, he proved to the world that for a real street fight there is no system of self-defense that is more complete, reliable or effective, even against a larger opponent, then Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

Everyone who witnessed what Royce did in the first 4 UFCs, quickly realized that he knew something very special since it didn't seem possible for an average person like him to defeat an opponent almost 80 lbs heavier then him. This was the introduction of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to the world of martial arts and the impact it had will never be undone. From this point on, virtually every fighter to step foot in the octagon knew that without incorporating the teachings of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu into their current training regimens they wouldn't stand a chance.

On May 27, 2006, Royce Gracie would return to the UFC to face the current welterweight champion Matt Hughes. When the bell rang and the fight started, Matt and Royce got into a clinch and went to the ground. Matt was able to pass the guard (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) and establish the sidemount (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he was able to attempt a Kimura lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he transitioned into a straight arm lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu). Royce was able to untangle his arm and in an attempt to get to a better position, he went to his knees. At this point, Matt quickly spun to a backmount and with his hooks (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) in controlled Royce enough to be able to end the fight with an array of punches to the back of the head. When the fight was over, the crowd was shocked, Royce lost but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu won.

The Gracie Academy would like to congratulate Mr. Hughes on his ability to recognize the importance of incorporating Gracie Jiu-Jitsu into his arsenal of techniques and on his dedication to achieving such a high level of proficiency in these techniques. Since 1925, the objective of the Gracie Family has been to show the world the importance of knowing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. The Gracie Family would like to thank Mr. Hughes for his commitment to the "Gracie Cause" through his continuous demonstration of the effectiveness and efficiency of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in real combat.

https://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/BJJ/Rorian-thanks-Hughes-for-using-GJJ:827260-1

Try this link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090224230148/http://www.gracieacademy.com:80/ufc.htm

 

[gono btw]

I was there at the Pond I believe. It was a night of wrestling with BJJ. It was destruction and humiliation. Hughs beat Royce in every aspect of the fight. Hughs mounted Royce both hooks, Royce turned over gave Hughes his back, Hughes got a straight arm kimura, Royce arm was about to snap like a twig, so Hughes showed sympathy and just battered him on top of his head until ref broke it up by way of ground and pound and not by submission, which had nothing to do with his win, but a near broken arm. Hughes was 34 and Royce was 37, so not much difference.

hmmm...nah... Hoyce was 40 yrs old, and that was an irrelevant fight, a hype job, jus´like Ken vs Tito.

 

[gono btw]

That whole fight was a disaster all the way around, from the last-minute time limit (probably the suits convincing Rorion because Severn/Gracie ran over the PPV time slot and they had to refund a ton of money) and Ken refusing to alter the strategy that he'd devised for a three-hour fight while Royce refused to initiate any offense and tried to wait Ken out. It's really too bad that Ken gave Royce so much respect, because, in all honesty, he could've/should've done to Royce at UFC 5 what Hughes did to him at UFC 60.



I get it. As a "family business," they can be quite odious. But I have so much respect for Rorion's vision and the way that he made his dream a reality, I have so much respect for the idea of the Gracie Challenge, and I have so much respect for the way that Royce served as a long overdue bubble-burster to all the hocus pocus in the martial arts world.




It's really a fascinating fight from multiple angles. From this angle, it's fascinating because it's one of the rare fights where even one of the fighters bought in to the hype. During Hughes' post-fight interview in the cage, you can see it on his face and hear it in his voice how utterly flabbergasted he was that he was able to maul Royce like that. He really thought that Royce was some kind of submission magician and he couldn't believe how easy it was to shut Royce down, overpower him, and pound him out. Then you go to the very next UFC with Tito/Ken II and let's just say that was a lot less surprising

> About UFC 5:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/

> If we are to believe Art Davie´s book, Horion was not interested in creatin´ UFC, only in droppin´here & there Gracie challenges to promote BJJ Academies.
There´s a puzzlin´ change in the Gracie camp when it comes to their initial vision in the USA: they didnt seem to view this as an opportunity to give continuity to the BJJ vs Luta Livre Challenge events.

> Hughes vs Hoyce was a desperate Gracie move to stay relevant, gap between generations, unfortunately.
This fight was a hype job, jus´like Ken vs Tito.
Hoyce was 2 old.

 

[boss429]

@europe1 @gono btw

Hello, everyone. Long story short: I'm an academic and I'm presenting an MMA history paper at a conference soon and I'm looking for a source. I haven't been able to find it yet, and that's because my memory is fuzzy (and Google is only as good as what you search for), so I'm turning to the MMA encyclopedias on here for help.

After Royce Gracie lost to Matt Hughes at UFC 60, I remember an interview - I don't remember if it was Royce himself or someone else in the Gracie family, and I don't remember if it was a print interview or on a UFC broadcast - where someone was giving a glass half full perspective and talking about how Royce's loss to Matt was ultimately a win for the Gracies and for BJJ since Matt won what was essentially a ground fight.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you post up a link for me in here or point me in the direction of the quote? Whoever comes up with what I'm looking for first, I promise you a shoutout in my presentation

Thanks in advance.

I remember that, thought it was during the in cage interviews though and Matt immediately disputed it saying it was 100% American Wrestling that got him the win.

EDIT: Nice username BTW, I can only assume it is referring to the 68 Fastback from the movie and as you can see by mine I'm a diehard Mustang fan myself, lol.

 

[TheRassler]

I’m still trying to track down this old UFC where they brought out to the cage a returning BJ Penn, Frank Mir, and maybe one other fighter.

 

[gono btw]

@europe1 @gono btw

Hello, everyone. Long story short: I'm an academic and I'm presenting an MMA history paper at a conference soon and I'm looking for a source. I haven't been able to find it yet, and that's because my memory is fuzzy (and Google is only as good as what you search for), so I'm turning to the MMA encyclopedias on here for help.

After Royce Gracie lost to Matt Hughes at UFC 60, I remember an interview - I don't remember if it was Royce himself or someone else in the Gracie family, and I don't remember if it was a print interview or on a UFC broadcast - where someone was giving a glass half full perspective and talking about how Royce's loss to Matt was ultimately a win for the Gracies and for BJJ since Matt won what was essentially a ground fight.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you post up a link for me in here or point me in the direction of the quote? Whoever comes up with what I'm looking for first, I promise you a shoutout in my presentation

Thanks in advance.

Indeed, it was a Horion [official] note... But.. like all family 'businesses', ya may have to read between the lines...

1> Inside the Family:

I tend to believe that it was the result of a discussion [that matured] inside the family...
Probably between Horion, Henzo & maybe Hoyler, given the subtility of the note...obviously reminiscent of Henzo´s final speech @ the SAKU fight... Praisin´ the opponent while puttin´ yourself on a pedestal..

Now, 2 other [potential] voices:
> Hickson´s assessments about fights or skill sets were always kindah 'dry', no real room for subtility...

> Idem about Helson: he is the most hardcore inside the family and very vocal about 'pure' GJJ, and his reaction was perhaps more interestin´ than this note...

Spoiler: Helson´s reaction

> And Royce’s fight with Matt Hughes?

HELSON: "It was a shame that he did not use any Jiu-Jitsu. Are you s*itting me? He f*cks up the fight and disrespects my father. I do not speak with him anymore. Lack of respect to call my dad to see him fight karate! After that I didn’t speak with Royce anymore. He is my brother, but I can’t."

In recent interviews, he confirmed that he didnt understand why Hoyce started cross-trainin´ [MT etc] instead of focussin´on GJJ.
That´s the reason why he lost, accordin´to him...

2/ Historical Perspective:

Was actually not the 1st time that a similar case happened involvin´ them Gracies.

Reminder: 1st of all, Kimura did say that if Helio lasted more than 3 mns, he could be considered the winner... And the GJJ crew did celebrate it as a 'moral victory'...

Meanwhile... Euclydes Pereira [Luta Livre/Karate/Boxe/Capoeira] & Ivan Gomes [Luta Livre/Judo]
can be both considered the Gracies´ nemeses.

Note: Luta Livre ~ Catch Wrasslin´+greco-roman wrasslin´+JJJ

Ivan Gomes [Luta Livre], after his epic fight with Carlson Gracie [draw] in 1963, joined him and learnt about BJJ (promising to never challenge him again).

Spoiler: Ivan Gomes vs Carlson

B4 meetin´ him, Ivan was trainin´ his ground game with Agatangelo & José Maria Freire (Zé Maria), former student of Nilo Veloso (a George Gracie´s student).
But it was Osmar Mousinho “Biuce” who introduced Ivan to JJ.

That said, he was pretty well-rounded, strikin´ [kicks] & wrasslin too, and had a legit submission game (deadly heel hooks> Carlson even said once that he believed he was the creator of this technique...)

Still, besides the weight difference, Carlson, commentin´ the draw, claimed that Ivan was a...BJJ fighter...

Spoiler: Carlson Interview

From O'Tatame magazine (Brazil)

This interview took place soon after UFC 15, at the end of 1997.

> What was your hardest fight?

CARLSON:
"My hardest fight was against Ivan Gomes, he was a monster. Afterwards, he became my student and became world champion. That was a terrible fight, with three-ten minute rounds, and would only stop if one of us fell out of the ring. He had 98 Kg (215lbs), and I was 73Kg (160lbs). But I was in really good shape, if it wasn't for that, I would have lost."

Spoiler: Note - Euclydes Pereira fight

Here, Carlson is clearly dismissin´ the Euclydes Pereira fight that he lost, coz he felt he was kindah robbed: was supposed to be a No Judges fight, and they change the Fight Configuration at the very last moment, allowin´ win on points... The fight didnt take place in Rio, but in Salvador, Bahia.

> Was he a Jiu-Jitsu fighter?

CARLSON:
"I think he learned with a student of my uncles, George in Recife (also North Brazil). He was a Jiu-Jitsu fighter and not only was he very strong, but he had a very hard guard."

 

[TheArgumentPod]

Royce did steroids.

 

[nhbfan8080]

I remember it clearly. The Gracie's stating that because Royce was defeated by Jiu Jitsu it was a win for BJJ and indirectly a win for Gracie JJ. I almost want to think it was a guest host like Eddie B or something that said it.

"Win for BJJ" yeah right Hughes elbowed him on the head.

 

[5.7]

“if he dies, he dies”