Calling Old School MMA Fans and/or MMA Trivia Buffs: Need Help with Royce Gracie/Matt Hughes Quote

[Bullitt68]

@europe1 @gono btw

Hello, everyone. Long story short: I'm an academic and I'm presenting an MMA history paper at a conference soon and I'm looking for a source. I haven't been able to find it yet, and that's because my memory is fuzzy (and Google is only as good as what you search for), so I'm turning to the MMA encyclopedias on here for help.

After Royce Gracie lost to Matt Hughes at UFC 60, I remember an interview - I don't remember if it was Royce himself or someone else in the Gracie family, and I don't remember if it was a print interview or on a UFC broadcast - where someone was giving a glass half full perspective and talking about how Royce's loss to Matt was ultimately a win for the Gracies and for BJJ since Matt won what was essentially a ground fight.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you post up a link for me in here or point me in the direction of the quote? Whoever comes up with what I'm looking for first, I promise you a shoutout in my presentation

Thanks in advance.

 

[ThatGuy7698]

Royce's loss to Matt was ultimately a win for the Gracies and for BJJ since Matt won what was essentially a ground fight.

Wait, what? How's that a win for the Gracies? If anything it shows people not to train with a gym that associates themselves with the Gracies.

 

[Klaavical]

I remember it clearly. The Gracie's stating that because Royce was defeated by Jiu Jitsu it was a win for BJJ and indirectly a win for Gracie JJ. I almost want to think it was a guest host like Eddie B or something that said it.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Tank me later OP, the link is dead though:

www.gracieacademy.com/ufc.htm

UFC 60 - Royce Gracie Loses but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Wins When discussing the "secret" to the success of the Gracie Family, Helio Gracie once said, "It is not the Gracie's who are amazing people, it is Gracie Jiu-Jitsu that is amazing. This jiu-jitsu of ours is not exclusive to us, anyone who is dedicated enough to thoroughly study and understand it will be empowered far more then they could ever be without it." Helio Gracie spent his entire life perfecting the techniques of what we now refer to as Brazilian or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

Because of his physical frailness, he was forced to develop techniques that relied more on proper timing and use of leverage then on brute strength or explosiveness. Once he had perfected the technique to a certain point, his objective was to teach other so that they could have a realistic chance of defending themselves against a stronger more athletic opponent. His children and nephews followed the tradition of spreading the knowledge of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in an attempt to help as many people as possible, and with hopes of sharing these techniques to the world, Rorion Gracie, his oldest son, left Brazil to get established in the United States in 1978.

When Rorion got established in Southern California he realized that there were many forms or martial arts being practiced in the U.S. all of which claimed to prepare the practitioner or student for a real street fight or confrontation. The problem was that because the representatives of these various disciplines never officially crossed paths, there was no way of knowing which style was most effective for a real fight. 1993 the Rorion Gracie created the Ultimate Fighting Championship for one very simple reason-to answer the age old question, "Which martial art is most effective for a real street fight?" His hope was to give the people of the world a chance to witness, once and for all, the representatives of different styles competing against one another so that they, the viewers, could decide for themselves which styles were designed for sportive competition, flashy movie scenes or a real street fight.

Representatives from all of the most well known disciplines: Karate, Tae kwon do, Kickboxing, Judo, Wrestling, Shoot fighting, Sumo, etc. were invited to compete in this single elimination 8 man tournament in which one individual would have to defeat 3 others in the same night to be declared the Ultimate Fighting Champion. In order to make each fight as similar to a real street fight as possible, there were no rules and no time limits, the fights would continue until someone gave up or passed out. Rorion selected Royce Gracie to represent the family's art due to the fact that Royce was not a big strong athlete which would allow the average viewer to appreciate the efficiency of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. He shocked the world when he defeated all three of his opponents with the methodical techniques of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. What was most amazing is that he did this even though all of his opponents were heavier and stronger then him. Royce went on to win 3 UFC titles and by doing so, he proved to the world that for a real street fight there is no system of self-defense that is more complete, reliable or effective, even against a larger opponent, then Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

Everyone who witnessed what Royce did in the first 4 UFCs, quickly realized that he knew something very special since it didn't seem possible for an average person like him to defeat an opponent almost 80 lbs heavier then him. This was the introduction of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to the world of martial arts and the impact it had will never be undone. From this point on, virtually every fighter to step foot in the octagon knew that without incorporating the teachings of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu into their current training regimens they wouldn't stand a chance.

On May 27, 2006, Royce Gracie would return to the UFC to face the current welterweight champion Matt Hughes. When the bell rang and the fight started, Matt and Royce got into a clinch and went to the ground. Matt was able to pass the guard (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) and establish the sidemount (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he was able to attempt a Kimura lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he transitioned into a straight arm lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu). Royce was able to untangle his arm and in an attempt to get to a better position, he went to his knees. At this point, Matt quickly spun to a backmount and with his hooks (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) in controlled Royce enough to be able to end the fight with an array of punches to the back of the head. When the fight was over, the crowd was shocked, Royce lost but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu won.

The Gracie Academy would like to congratulate Mr. Hughes on his ability to recognize the importance of incorporating Gracie Jiu-Jitsu into his arsenal of techniques and on his dedication to achieving such a high level of proficiency in these techniques. Since 1925, the objective of the Gracie Family has been to show the world the importance of knowing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. The Gracie Family would like to thank Mr. Hughes for his commitment to the "Gracie Cause" through his continuous demonstration of the effectiveness and efficiency of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in real combat.

https://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/BJJ/Rorian-thanks-Hughes-for-using-GJJ:827260-1

 

[GSP_37]

Don't remember for sure, but I wouldn't be shocked if Renzo said something like that.

 

[wrestlefan]

I would watch the rematch.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

@Bullitt68 can i get some sweet AV swag or something for my google-fu?

if you are curious how I found it, I googled "hughes gracie excuse"
which brought me here: https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/gracie-academys-lack-of-respect-towards-matt-hughes.386691/

The quote is broken though, so I just googled "The Gracie Academy would like to congratulate Mr. Hughes"

which brought me to the link I posted which had the entire quote posted.

 

[acannxr]

@europe1 @gono btw

Hello, everyone. Long story short: I'm an academic and I'm presenting an MMA history paper at a conference soon and I'm looking for a source. I haven't been able to find it yet, and that's because my memory is fuzzy (and Google is only as good as what you search for), so I'm turning to the MMA encyclopedias on here for help.

After Royce Gracie lost to Matt Hughes at UFC 60, I remember an interview - I don't remember if it was Royce himself or someone else in the Gracie family, and I don't remember if it was a print interview or on a UFC broadcast - where someone was giving a glass half full perspective and talking about how Royce's loss to Matt was ultimately a win for the Gracies and for BJJ since Matt won what was essentially a ground fight.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, can you post up a link for me in here or point me in the direction of the quote? Whoever comes up with what I'm looking for first, I promise you a shoutout in my presentation

Thanks in advance.

http://www.gracieacademy.com/ufc.htm

"The Gracie Academy would like to congratulate Mr. Hughes on his ability to recognize the importance of incorporating Gracie Jiu-Jitsu into his arsenal of techniques and on his dedication to achieving such a high level of proficiency in these techniques.

Since 1925, the objective of the Gracie Family has been to show the world the importance of knowing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. The Gracie Family would like to thank Mr. Hughes for his commitment to the"

Source:

On the Gracie Academy's website, there's a piece discussing the Royce/Hughes fight which basically states that Matt Hughes' win was really a victory for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. I expected this kind of excuse from them so I wasn't surprised but what did upset me was the lack of respect shown towards Matt Hughes. This is what they wrote regarding Matt:

Additional info:

my fav part from the link:

On May 27, 2006, Royce Gracie would return to the UFC to face the current welterweight champion Matt Hughes. When the bell rang and the fight started, Matt and Royce got into a clinch and went to the ground. Matt was able to pass the guard (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) and establish the sidemount (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he was able to attempt a Kimura lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he transitioned into a straight arm lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu). Royce was able to untangle his arm and in an attempt to get to a better position, he went to his knees. At this point, Matt quickly spun to a backmount and with his hooks (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) in controlled Royce enough to be able to end the fight with an array of punches to the back of the head.

The only problem is, the link is broken, so you'd have to trust that these fellow Sherdoggers copy/pasted correctly.

 

[europe1]

Tank me later OP, the link is dead though:

Damn! Slick google-fu D1!

About the dead link. Here is the webpage itself revived through the Wayback Machine

https://web.archive.org/web/20080624224016/www.gracieacademy.com/ufc.htm

Personally, I was starting to flip through "Total MMA" by Jonathan Snowden, thinking I had read it in there. But yeah, google always beats the old analogue way

 

[Where you at Georges?]

https://www.myvideo.ge/v/872987
I get it, Matt was younger and stronger, but it was a rape

 

[KhabibSr]

I got Gracie in the rematch today.

 

[Bullitt68]

Wait, what? How's that a win for the Gracies? If anything it shows people not to train with a gym that associates themselves with the Gracies.

Well, the basic idea is captured in this challenge match from one of the old "Gracies in Action" tapes:



Like Rorion says in his voice-over narration: What the Gracies - and, by extension, the UFC - alerted people to was that you need more than just striking and even more than just the ability to take someone to the ground: You need to know how to operate on the ground. In the early UFCs, how many times did Royce go up against someone who knew BJJ (or hell, knew anything on the ground? Just Ken Shamrock, a catch-wrestler, and Remco Pardoel, a Judoka.). Fast-forward to 2006 when he made his return to the UFC and the whole MMA landscape had changed to where, now, EVERYONE knew and did BJJ. If it weren't for Royce and his family, Matt Hughes would've never been anything more than a wrestler, but, because of the martial arts evolution ignited by the Gracies, pure wrestlers like Hughes and pure strikers like Cro Cop knew that they needed to round their skills out and they incorporated BJJ just like Rorion wanted martial artists to do when he brought the Gracie Challenge to the US.

I know that the Gracies haven't exactly ingratiated themselves to the MMA community, and I know that often they're their own worst enemies, and I even know that coming out after that devastating loss with such transparent face-saving propaganda is a bit much, but none of that shit matters: You've got to give credit where credit is due.

Tank me later OP

I'm thanking you now and I'll thank you again next week during my presentation

Royce Gracie Loses but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Wins

I was so fucking close. I was searching stuff like "royce gracie matt hughes he won with jiu jitsu" and "royce gracie ufc 60 interview." Damn it, Google

I googled "hughes gracie excuse"

Ah, the key word: Excuse

On May 27, 2006, Royce Gracie would return to the UFC to face the current welterweight champion Matt Hughes. When the bell rang and the fight started, Matt and Royce got into a clinch and went to the ground. Matt was able to pass the guard (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) and establish the sidemount (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he was able to attempt a Kimura lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) from which he transitioned into a straight arm lock (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu). Royce was able to untangle his arm and in an attempt to get to a better position, he went to his knees. At this point, Matt quickly spun to a backmount and with his hooks (Gracie Jiu-Jitsu) in controlled Royce enough to be able to end the fight with an array of punches to the back of the head. When the fight was over, the crowd was shocked, Royce lost but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu won.

As an academic, I find those Gracie Jiu-Jitsu "citations" in there especially hilarious

@Bullitt68 can i get some sweet AV swag or something for my google-fu?

Are you saying that you want something OTHER THAN that lovely and totally not creepy Aleks AV?

Source

Thanks for the extra info. Even in 2006, everything that I heard was heard first on Sherdog

I would watch the rematch.

About the dead link. Here is the webpage itself revived through the Wayback Machine

https://web.archive.org/web/20080624224016/www.gracieacademy.com/ufc.htm

I knew I was right to tag you in here

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Well, the basic idea is captured in this challenge match from one of the old "Gracies in Action" tapes:



Like Rorion says in his voice-over narration: What the Gracies - and, by extension, the UFC - alerted people to was that you need more than just striking and even more than just the ability to take someone to the ground: You need to know how to operate on the ground. In the early UFCs, how many times did Royce go up against someone who knew BJJ (or hell, knew anything on the ground? Just Ken Shamrock, a catch-wrestler, and Remco Pardoel, a Judoka.). Fast-forward to 2006 when he made his return to the UFC and the whole MMA landscape had changed to where, now, EVERYONE knew and did BJJ. If it weren't for Royce and his family, Matt Hughes would've never been anything more than a wrestler, but, because of the martial arts evolution ignited by the Gracies, pure wrestlers like Hughes and pure strikers like Cro Cop knew that they needed to round their skills out and they incorporated BJJ just like Rorion wanted martial artists to do when he brought the Gracie Challenge to the US.

I know that the Gracies haven't exactly ingratiated themselves to the MMA community, and I know that often they're their own worst enemies, and I even know that coming out after that devastating loss with such transparent face-saving propaganda is a bit much, but none of that shit matters: You've got to give credit where credit is due.



I'm thanking you now and I'll thank you again next week during my presentation



I was so fucking close. I was searching stuff like "royce gracie matt hughes he won with jiu jitsu" and "royce gracie ufc 60 interview." Damn it, Google



Ah, the key word: Excuse



As an academic, I find those Gracie Jiu-Jitsu "citations" in there especially hilarious



Are you saying that you want something OTHER THAN that lovely and totally not creepy Aleks AV?



Thanks for the extra info. Even in 2006, everything that I heard was heard first on Sherdog

I knew I was right to tag you in here

That's actually a shop with Conors face lol

 

[lostdog000]

all those "gracie jiu jitsu" hughes moves used to win existed before gracie jiujitsu

 

[Bullitt68]

That's actually a shop with Conors face lol

At first glance, I didn't even notice that. To be honest, Conor's face makes it less creepy. Aleks is the one who had the legit Charles Manson vibes

all those "gracie jiu jitsu" hughes moves used to win existed before gracie jiujitsu

And martial arts existed before Bruce Lee, but how many people know martial arts because of him as opposed to Morihei Ueshiba or Mas Oyama? It's the same principle. The Gracies were innovating with preexisting materials, but their innovations are what spawned the MMA revolution.

OT: They Came Together is one of the most underrated comedies ever made

 

[YourOnlineHero]

You banned me for multiple years with no evidence of wrong doing.

I could help you but I won't.

 

[Kertol]

Pathetic that he Gracie’s claim every submission pulled off is a result of bjj.

Submissions and grappling are in multiple martial arts. And the Gracie’s never invented anything they just took everything from Judo.

 

[europe1]

And martial arts existed before Bruce Lee, but how many people know martial arts because of him as opposed to Morihei Ueshiba or Mas Oyama? It's the same principle. The Gracies were innovating with preexisting materials, but their innovations are what spawned the MMA revolution.

Sure. But just because you lay the first stone does not mean you build the pyramid. By the time of Royce vs Hughes, the MMA evolution had taken on a life of its own — long divorced from the Gracies. Saying that all these techniques are Gracie Jiu-Jutsu is disingenuous and incongruous considering the multiple iterations that MMA had been evolving through since they ruled the field, which isn't really encapsulated or acknowledged in their statement.

I mean, even in Ken vs Royce 2 someone figuered out how to beat a Gracie, getting a Draw solely due to time-limit. And all it took was Ken knowing he was fighting a BJJ guy instead of a Karate guy like he thought the first time.

Yes, I hate the Gracies, okay!?

 

[Lawrence]

I got Gracie in the rematch today.

It would be a train wreck!





Too soon?

 

[EndlessCritic]

I could not remember off hand, but my first reaction was that it sounded like Rorion.