Opinion California on fire

[HomeCheese]

it was well below freezing, brother. I wouldn't call that a cold snap. someone else made reference to how California can't be expected to adequately respond to a once every 500 year occurrence and most reasonable people would be able to look at what happened in Texas during the 'cold snap' and realize it too was a once in a lifetime occurrence. a little humility goes a long way.

The same level cold spell happened in Texas exactly ten years before the last one, not 500 years. Further, Malibu has burned before due to the Santa Anna winds. Just off the top of my head I believe there was a huge fire there in the 70's that devastated the canyon. In addition, the Tunnel fire in '91 was also kicked up due to similar wind conditions. Although it was in NorCal, it was strong, hot winds coming out of the east that kicked up a fire that had been out out hours earlier.

Still, I'm not sure this fire will make the top 20 list of costliest US natural disasters. It's like 90% hurricanes and floods on the list and not in California.

 

[HomeCheese]

Oh Fuck off. Is this some kind of game to you? Several historical sites have been wiped out by the fires, some were 100+ years old. How many people’s lives are completely destroyed by Govt leader incompetence in California? 100,000? Not including those who have died… and that number will definitely climb.

Still don’t know where you shit that 700 number

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/03/1069974416/texas-winter-storm-final-death-toll

You’re comparing an event across an entire state vs part of a city. And yes, Texas leaders were held accountable.. and criminal charges should have been brought against the power providers. It was inexcusable for so much of the state to lose power.

I was here for both cold events and 2021 was far worse. It hit 7 in some parts of town. The previous event hit 20 in Houston. 2021 was lowest since the record of 5 in 1930.

Sustained Sub 15 degrees in Houston has never happened in my 20 years here. And it was much colder the further north you went. And lasted an entire week

Fires are a regular event in Southern California. Its retarded you’re comparing the two. There’s no excuse for them to be caught with their pants down for a predicted event. They even had several days warning by the weather service

LOL! Rick Perry said it himself. Texans would rather die in their home than regulate the energy market.

You should google the studies that were done on the number of deaths from the storm and how you state officials has tried to stick to the 200 number. I don't blame them though as it's pretty damning.

 

[HomeCheese]

Oh Fuck off. Is this some kind of game to you? Several historical sites have been wiped out by the fires, some were 100+ years old. How many people’s lives are completely destroyed by Govt leader incompetence in California? 100,000? Not including those who have died… and that number will definitely climb.

Still don’t know where you shit that 700 number

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/03/1069974416/texas-winter-storm-final-death-toll

You’re comparing an event across an entire state vs part of a city. And yes, Texas leaders were held accountable.. and criminal charges should have been brought against the power providers. It was inexcusable for so much of the state to lose power.

I was here for both cold events and 2021 was far worse. It hit 7 in some parts of town. The previous event hit 20 in Houston. 2021 was lowest since the record of 5 in 1930.

Sustained Sub 15 degrees in Houston has never happened in my 20 years here. And it was much colder the further north you went. And lasted an entire week

Fires are a regular event in Southern California. Its retarded you’re comparing the two. There’s no excuse for them to be caught with their pants down for a predicted event. They even had several days warning by the weather service

It happened in 1989 and most recently in 2011. Particularly in '11, winter conditions caused 200 generators to fail leaving millions without power. Plenty of officials warned about winterizing the power generating facilities which were ignored. So only ten years later when all those people died so of course they tried to sweep it under the rug. Grandmas dies alone in their homes trying to keep warm. "Once in a life time winter storm" bullshit.

Further, how many water mains in Texas broke in the last storm? It gets colder in much of the rest of the country and the water still seems to flow. Is it because in Texas they put the water pipes too close the the surface? My fiend had water coming up through the sidewalks all over her neighborhood. This one was a head scratcher as even parts of Cali get colder than what you guys experienced and the pipes don't break.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

The same level cold spell happened in Texas exactly ten years before the last one, not 500 years. Further, Malibu has burned before due to the Santa Anna winds. Just off the top of my head I believe there was a huge fire there in the 70's that devastated the canyon. In addition, the Tunnel fire in '91 was also kicked up due to similar wind conditions. Although it was in NorCal, it was strong, hot winds coming out of the east that kicked up a fire that had been out out hours earlier.

Still, I'm not sure this fire will make the top 20 list of costliest US natural disasters. It's like 90% hurricanes and floods on the list and not in California.

yes but that was a single day where no one passed away and most people had power back on in the same day. they're not comparable in my opinion.

 

[chardog]

The same level cold spell happened in Texas exactly ten years before the last one, not 500 years. Further, Malibu has burned before due to the Santa Anna winds. Just off the top of my head I believe there was a huge fire there in the 70's that devastated the canyon. In addition, the Tunnel fire in '91 was also kicked up due to similar wind conditions. Although it was in NorCal, it was strong, hot winds coming out of the east that kicked up a fire that had been out out hours earlier.

Still, I'm not sure this fire will make the top 20 list of costliest US natural disasters. It's like 90% hurricanes and floods on the list and not in California.

palisades + eaton, not sure how it wont be the costliest. These are two wealthy areas that went up in smoke. We had similar fires in ventura 7 years ago.

 

[Lycandroid]

“To those that believe in climate change(you know because the mountains of undeniable evidence) why is it that the only solutions are a bunch of shit I’m pulling out of my ass right now?”

how about you attempt to answer the question instead of acting like a child ? or do you think carbon taxes and shutting down resource development in your own country while simultaneously funding it internationally are good solutions to the problem ? Why are actual solutions like nuclear energy, geo thermal not on the table ?

 

[Scerpi]

I don’t care what you call it. The label doesn’t matter. It’s clearly happening.

The irony in this thread is like a heavy fog. Here you are calling people sheep, but you’re the one bleating out the lie in the face of overwhelming evidence.

I don’t know if climate change played a factor in this fire. Climate change isn’t to blame for everything. It’s hard to get any real answers about this fire right now. This thread is thick with nothing but name calling and social media posts filled with buzzwords. No one seems interested in the truth and especially it tools like you.

There's no answers right now? Have you not been paying attention? There's a series of Democrat mismanagement that while may not have prevented the fires from starting, mostly likely caused this fire to explode unbated. It's been discussed several times and I've provided articles previously and back up for them.

Quick Summary

- City Officials were well aware extreme fire danger was eminent due to high wind warnings from the Weather Service several days in advance. City neglected the have extra firefighters on standby when during the wind event.
- Fire Response in Palisades was 45 minutes after the initial 911 calls. Average recommended fire response times is supposed to be 5 minutes.
- Hydrants ran dry - Main water supply reservoir for the Palisades has been empty for an extended period. Water and City Officials knew this was an issue because they debated trying at least partially filling when the Santa Ana Wind warnings came out a week before. They did not inform other parties this reservoir was empty... Including the Fire Department
- Fire was allowed to grow unabated due to zero ability by firefighters to put it out.
- LA Fire Chief had warned the mayor that the city was severely understaffed and not prepared for a major fire. LA has less than half the recommended firefighters and fire stations per capita. Mayor was still proposing cutting an additional $50 million from the budget just a couple weeks before the fire. The Mayor had the memo from the Fire Chief removed from the website after smaller Palisade fire a few weeks previously
- During a TV interview, the LA Fire Chief threw the mayor under bus by stating that the City had failed to properly prepare and didn't adequately give LAFD the resources they needed.

I'm sure climate change will be blamed for the winds.... But these winds have been a well documented annual event ever since people settled the area. Due to adequate rain, much of SoCal had been deemed out of State of Emergency for drought. Almost all the local reservoirs were mostly full, except the one critical reservoir that served the Palisades.

Gavin Newsom initially claimed all reservoirs were full, because the State has the water to keep them filled.. he was unaware the Palisades storage was empty. And the Fire Chief was unaware it was empty.



Now... I'm sure the details supporting or refuting most of this will come in the following months. But this is what has been reported so far. So when a poster comes in here claiming it's "Climate Change", they're full of shit, because much of the above has already been confirmed.

 

[nonoob]

There's no answers right now?

Hawaii is called by Newsome for help in land grab, Musk and alhis help was banished by Newsome.

 

[Scerpi]

It happened in 1989 and most recently in 2011. Particularly in '11, winter conditions caused 200 generators to fail leaving millions without power. Plenty of officials warned about winterizing the power generating facilities which were ignored. So only ten years later when all those people died so of course they tried to sweep it under the rug. Grandmas dies alone in their homes trying to keep warm. "Once in a life time winter storm" bullshit.

Further, how many water mains in Texas broke in the last storm? It gets colder in much of the rest of the country and the water still seems to flow. Is it because in Texas they put the water pipes too close the the surface? My fiend had water coming up through the sidewalks all over her neighborhood. This one was a head scratcher as even parts of Cali get colder than what you guys experienced and the pipes don't break.

2011 wasn't even close to 2021... lol. It was far colder and lasted much longer than 2011.

"Texas by far was the state worst affected by the cold wave. A record low temperature at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport of −2 °F (−19 °C) on February 16 was the coldest in North Texas in 72 years."

Underground water mains pipes didn't break.. I'm in the Water Treatment Plant business.... Water plants, pump stations and pipelines.

It was the loss of power combined with the cold. You have homes and commercial buildings made for extreme warm temperatures. With power off, water lines were exposed to freezing. It's an issue in Houston with cold weather even when the power is on.. Usually hose bibs on the side of the house. I was working at the City of Houston's main water treatment plant in 2011. There were several small diameter water lines that broke then. They did get those insulated and heat traced afterwards.

Water main pipes are still buried 4' min (usually more) here, even in Houston. And if a water main broke your friend's neighborhood, it would have done far more than just come up through the cracks. If left unattended for a couple days, a water main break would create a sinkhole and collapse the entire street above it. It would have been an ungodly amount of water. There would have been dirt and bedding sand coming up through the street... not just water.

However, homeowner service connections do come closer to the surface for the water meter and then into the house. I've seen those connection break under normal conditions and you'll see water come up through the pavement in the surrounding area. That's where some of them likely broke, especially further north where it was much colder.

Unfortunately, most Texas home owners don't know to leave a slight trickle of water flowing through a sink or tub to prevent the service connections from freezing. That's all it would have took.

And with extended power outages (agreed, it was completely unacceptable by the power providers), many house and commercial buildings with inadequate protection from cold temps had water breaks inside structures. A ton of home owners had water pipes break in attic areas that are vented and not sealed/insulated in some cold climates.

 

[method115]

Hawaii is called by Newsome for help in land grab, Musk and alhis help was banished by Newsome.

I saw Rogan bring this up as well. I think everyone is misunderstanding what he's saying here. First he says were already dealing with some issues. Then he starts talking about Hawaii and speculators coming in to buy land. Which is something they were worried about happening in Hawaii. Sounds like he wants to stop that from happening not that he wants it to happen.

 

[Blayt7hh]

how about you attempt to answer the question instead of acting like a child ? or do you think carbon taxes and shutting down resource development in your own country while simultaneously funding it internationally are good solutions to the problem ? Why are actual solutions like nuclear energy, geo thermal not on the table ?

Because it isn’t a real question. You just made up a bunch of arguments and claimed that’s what “libs”believe. Like where is the wealth inequality thing coming from? No one has said that’s a solution to climate change.

You act like those are the only solutions put forth. So I don’t know, why don’t you make up my response to your questions to?

 

[Blayt7hh]

There's no answers right now? Have you not been paying attention? There's a series of Democrat mismanagement that while may not have prevented the fires from starting, mostly likely caused this fire to explode unbated. It's been discussed several times and I've provided articles previously and back up for them.

Quick Summary

- City Officials were well aware extreme fire danger was eminent due to high wind warnings from the Weather Service several days in advance. City neglected the have extra firefighters on standby when during the wind event.
- Fire Response in Palisades was 45 minutes after the initial 911 calls. Average recommended fire response times is supposed to be 5 minutes.
- Hydrants ran dry - Main water supply reservoir for the Palisades has been empty for an extended period. Water and City Officials knew this was an issue because they debated trying at least partially filling when the Santa Ana Wind warnings came out a week before. They did not inform other parties this reservoir was empty... Including the Fire Department
- Fire was allowed to grow unabated due to zero ability by firefighters to put it out.
- LA Fire Chief had warned the mayor that the city was severely understaffed and not prepared for a major fire. LA has less than half the recommended firefighters and fire stations per capita. Mayor was still proposing cutting an additional $50 million from the budget just a couple weeks before the fire. The Mayor had the memo from the Fire Chief removed from the website after smaller Palisade fire a few weeks previously
- During a TV interview, the LA Fire Chief threw the mayor under bus by stating that the City had failed to properly prepare and didn't adequately give LAFD the resources they needed.

I'm sure climate change will be blamed for the winds.... But these winds have been a well documented annual event ever since people settled the area. Due to adequate rain, much of SoCal had been deemed out of State of Emergency for drought. Almost all the local reservoirs were mostly full, except the one critical reservoir that served the Palisades.

Gavin Newsom initially claimed all reservoirs were full, because the State has the water to keep them filled.. he was unaware the Palisades storage was empty. And the Fire Chief was unaware it was empty.



Now... I'm sure the details supporting or refuting most of this will come in the following months. But this is what has been reported so far. So when a poster comes in here claiming it's "Climate Change", they're full of shit, because much of the above has already been confirmed.

Because it is mostly bullshit. It’s always an avalanche of bullshit people spout on social media that then gets repeated and spreads all over and half of it is never true. How are you guys not seeing that cycle now with every, single, damn story that breaks today?

What do you even want anyone to take from this tirade of bs? You list all this stuff the the LAFD Chief was raising the alarm well before the fire. But also, all the right wing media is fixated on how she sucks as a human and a fire fighter and a DEI hire. So take her seriously at your convenience? This is the kind of trash I’m talking g about right there

And frankly, I think it’s hilarious that suddenly everyone is an expert on preventing wildfires with lots of opinions on how it should be done

 

[Lycandroid]

Because it isn’t a real question. You just made up a bunch of arguments and claimed that’s what “libs”believe. Like where is the wealth inequality thing coming from? No one has said that’s a solution to climate change.

You act like those are the only solutions put forth. So I don’t know, why don’t you make up my response to your questions to?

sure thing

"I am Blayt7hh and I ignore everything that goes against my belief system and conclude anything I don't understand or have no knowledge of to not be real. If anyone challenges me I deflect because I have nothing to back up my own claims"

 

[Blayt7hh]

sure thing

"I am Blayt7hh and I ignore everything that goes against my belief system and conclude anything I don't understand or have no knowledge of to not be real. If anyone challenges me I deflect because I have nothing to back up my own claims"

It’s true I don’t have a defense for the belief system you made up for me

 

[Scerpi]

Because it is mostly bullshit. It’s always an avalanche of bullshit people spout on social media that then gets repeated and spreads all over and half of it is never true. How are you guys not seeing that cycle now with every, single, damn story that breaks today?

What do you even want anyone to take from this tirade of bs? You list all this stuff the the LAFD Chief was raising the alarm well before the fire. But also, all the right wing media is fixated on how she sucks as a human and a fire fighter and a DEI hire. So take her seriously at your convenience? This is the kind of trash I’m talking g about right there

And frankly, I think it’s hilarious that suddenly everyone is an expert on preventing wildfires with lots of opinions on how it should be done

Hahaha!! Ok. We’ll if it’s bullshit, but I bet it’s mostly correct. I’ve posted several backups previously

I’m not an expert on fire fighting.

I have my CE and build water infrastructure for a living.

Water treatment, pump stations, pipelines, water storage tanks

lol

 

[nonoob]

I think everyone is misunderstanding what he's saying here.

timestamped Newsome's eyes and body language - knowing he won the citizen destruction land grab lottery just like Hawaii's governer did.

 

[Libero cane v2]

Because it is mostly bullshit. It’s always an avalanche of bullshit people spout on social media that then gets repeated and spreads all over and half of it is never true. How are you guys not seeing that cycle now with every, single, damn story that breaks today?

What do you even want anyone to take from this tirade of bs? You list all this stuff the the LAFD Chief was raising the alarm well before the fire. But also, all the right wing media is fixated on how she sucks as a human and a fire fighter and a DEI hire. So take her seriously at your convenience? This is the kind of trash I’m talking g about right there

And frankly, I think it’s hilarious that suddenly everyone is an expert on preventing wildfires with lots of opinions on how it should be done

They have more time to be wildfire experts now that they’ve retired as pandemic experts.

 

[method115]

timestamped Newsome's eyes and body language - knowing he won the citizen destruction land grab lottery just like Hawaii.

Yea this is the one I saw. I do think Newsom is trying to say that he wants to stop the land grab not that he wants to help them do it.

 

[Lycandroid]

It’s true I don’t have a defense for the belief system you made up for me

what you don't have is a defense of any of my points I pulled out of my ass, I wish I could tell the government these taxes are just pulled out of my ass

 

[RoastBeast]

They have more time to be wildfire experts now that they’ve retired as pandemic experts.

You mean the guys who turned out to be more correct than "teh science" when it came to covid? Yeah I have more faith in those guys over the government shills that are here to tell us all to trust the experts when the experts are the ones who clearly failed with their preparation. You don't need to have a PhD in wildland fires to know incompetency when you see it.