Butterfly Guard; Marcelo vs Wardzinski?

[QingTian]

I've made the same comparison to judo on here before too. In judo the grip battle is the key part, its decides the whole fight. Whoever wins that throws the other guy because they know exactly what they want the particular grips for, have drilled it to death and immediately use them.

Marcelo's effectively doing the same, he's hand-fighting to dominant grips and attacking off them immediately. If he gets them he gets to do what he wants and you get no chance to do what you wanted to do. Its more specific than just get a grip even if its not perfect; each of overhooks, underhooks, Collar Ties or 2-on-1 grips are all very strong controls. Winning the hand fight lets him dictate what happens next and the other guy is forced to be reactive. He doesn't have a way to force his game on Marcelo like how getting out-gripped in judo means you've little or no chance of throwing the other guy.

I think it's more akin to grip fighting in wrestling, and naturally so because Marcelo mixes wrestling in. Without a gi you cannot maintain a grip unless the grip is by nature dominant. In Judo I can still throw with an "inferior" grip because of the leverage and distance involved, whereas in wrestling you really have shit if you lost the grip battle and are wide open.

This principle extends to a seated guard in no gi. You are always in danger of being run around or pressured, so if you play head on you have to win the grips.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Butterfly -- Shoot and Re-Shoot

 

[KenkaBancho]

Butterfly -- Shoot and Re-Shoot

At the risk of making myself sound like an idiot... i don't actually like this way of hitting the butterfly. if he ain't budging cos of a strong base, buttscooting to explode from underneath him is gonna take up a lot of energy. i'd much prefer to try to go front headlock, armdrag or something else.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

At the risk of making myself sound like an idiot... i don't actually like this way of hitting the butterfly. if he ain't budging cos of a strong base, buttscooting to explode from underneath him is gonna take up a lot of energy. i'd much prefer to try to go front headlock, armdrag or something else.

In this situation wouldn't anything other than disengaging or pulling guard (half or close) use energy - you're going to have to explode anyway.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Anyhow, Bought it.

Arm and a leg in Canadian $ but Marcelo has been my all time favourite.

 

[The Thrill]

In this situation wouldn't anything other than disengaging or pulling guard (half or close) use energy - you're going to have to explode anyway.

didnt watch the video before saying this but-i used to not really be into "reshooting" on the butterfly sweep, until it was in one of the BJJ scout vids on wardzinski, he calls it double biting or re-bite...spamming butterfly sweeps basically, but on the 2nd or 3rd youll catch it

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

didnt watch the video before saying this but-i used to not really be into "reshooting" on the butterfly sweep, until it was in one of the BJJ scout vids on wardzinski, he calls it double biting or re-bite...spamming butterfly sweeps basically, but on the 2nd or 3rd youll catch it

I'm going to try it today.

I don't see how it can use anymore energy than going for a choke - you might end up losing or an arm-drag (from the situation that Marcelo described during the shoot, re-shoot clip).

 

[The Thrill]

I'm going to try it today.

I don't see how it can use anymore energy than going for a choke - you might end up losing or an arm-drag (from the situation that Marcelo described during the shoot, re-shoot clip).

dude its literally a shrimp pretty much, but in the opposite direction-is shrimping too explosive/use too much energy?

 

[tekkenfan]

just watched it tbh wasnt much dif from his site but organized better instead of searching each move

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

dude its literally a shrimp pretty much, but in the opposite direction-is shrimping too explosive/use too much energy?

Yes - plus you are already clamped to them (with the arm and underhook control) so you're essentially pulling yourself in with a bit of a "reverse shrimp".

Anyhow, I tried it today and got my guard passed by a white belt - trying a new move on the fly (live) without drilling it usually doesn't work. LOL.

 

[KenkaBancho]

Yes - plus you are already clamped to them (with the arm and underhook control) so you're essentially pulling yourself in with a bit of a "reverse shrimp".

Anyhow, I tried it today and got my guard passed by a white belt - trying a new move on the fly (live) without drilling it usually doesn't work. LOL.

IMO, i would rather shrimp out than shrimp in. shrimping in requires me to load their weight on me by exploding to get underneath them whereas shrimping out doesn't.

 

[spiderguarda]

Yes - plus you are already clamped to them (with the arm and underhook control) so you're essentially pulling yourself in with a bit of a "reverse shrimp".

Anyhow, I tried it today and got my guard passed by a white belt - trying a new move on the fly (live) without drilling it usually doesn't work. LOL.

Can you please write a review? It’s expensive and not sure if it’s really worthwhile getting. Marcelo obviously influenced so much of BJJ even Danaher teaches techniques straight from Marcelo.

Marcelo seems always rushed in his teaching for some reason. Danaher, I have to speed him up. I’m favoring learning no gi games instead of gi. Wardinski is a butterfly master. Not sure if he did a no gi DVD. Marcelo student Satva did a no gi butterfly instructional.

 

[kying418]

^ most of Marcelo's teaching videos on youtube are taken directly from his class instructions. In class, you don't have the time (and student retention) to teach a lot of details. Additionally, Marcelo does prefer to teach in a more straightforward style.

Heck, I took numerous Danaher classes- in class, he often teaches even more quickly (with equal or less) details than Marcelo does....

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Can you please write a review? It’s expensive and not sure if it’s really worthwhile getting. Marcelo obviously influenced so much of BJJ even Danaher teaches techniques straight from Marcelo.

Marcelo seems always rushed in his teaching for some reason. Danaher, I have to speed him up. I’m favoring learning no gi games instead of gi. Wardinski is a butterfly master. Not sure if he did a no gi DVD. Marcelo student Satva did a no gi butterfly instructional.

Wardzinski has both gi and no gi versions of his butterfly DVD.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Can you please write a review? It’s expensive and not sure if it’s really worthwhile getting. Marcelo obviously influenced so much of BJJ even Danaher teaches techniques straight from Marcelo.

Marcelo seems always rushed in his teaching for some reason. Danaher, I have to speed him up. I’m favoring learning no gi games instead of gi. Wardinski is a butterfly master. Not sure if he did a no gi DVD. Marcelo student Satva did a no gi butterfly instructional.

I'll try get to one in the next day or so.

I've only watched the first part so I do need to get through the rest.

From what I've seen so far it is a lot better in regards to structure than MGA site. I like the site but it is pain to get anyone to respond if you have an issue and having to navigate that site is also kind of a pain.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I don't understand the Marcelo clip. If I have an overhook from butterfly guard, and I am sitting up, how can someone possibly stop my butterfly sweep without posting their foot to the sweep side?

 

[Cappy Goodtime]

I don't understand the Marcelo clip. If I have an overhook from butterfly guard, and I am sitting up, how can someone possibly stop my butterfly sweep without posting their foot to the sweep side?

By hopping their hips over to the side.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Okay - so I'm just starting the third volume. First two are

I like how he has linked everything so far. Some awesome details (IMO) on hitting the Marcelotine from Butterfly on the 2nd volume (as well as that inverted arm bar he does - when and why you go for it).

 

[kying418]

I don't understand the Marcelo clip. If I have an overhook from butterfly guard, and I am sitting up, how can someone possibly stop my butterfly sweep without posting their foot to the sweep side?

Because Marcelo is assuming that the other guy is another World Champ competitor. With those, you aren't always going to hit your sweep on them.

If Marcelo has faced this obstacle (of not being able to sweep their opponent on their first attempt) in his training, then everyone else will as well.