Butterfly Guard; Marcelo vs Wardzinski?

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Can anyone give me a TLDR version of their approaches to Butterfly guard. Differences between, similarities?

I'm just asking because that bjj fantics is having a 30% off deal and I might purchase those Adam Wardzinski videos if they're different from Marcelo's approach.

 

[yetanother]

Wardzinski sets up his butterfly from half guard going through half butterfly.
He mostly hunts for the belt over hook and mixes in dragging the arm across and some armlocks.
He uses the turtle for people who jump over.
Haven't rolled with Marcelo but he seems to rely on insane distance control/timing and being athletic as fuck.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Wardzinski sets up his butterfly from half guard going through half butterfly.
He mostly hunts for the belt over hook and mixes in dragging the arm across and some armlocks.
He uses the turtle for people who jump over.
Haven't rolled with Marcelo but he seems to rely on instance distance control/timing and being athletic as fuck.

thanks

but isn't it all control and timing mixed with some strength, conditioning, athleticism?

 

[Os3y3ris]

Butterfly half is the game.

 

[Daz2300]

Marcelo Garcia -- Doesn't play 'guard' as such. Seated square, super-aggressively hand fighting to get hook sweeps, arm drags or just come up. If you've any wrestling background his game is up your alley.

Adam Wardzinski -- Set mostly focuses on overhook with a belt grip and what he calls Lazy Butterfly. The later one is butterfly hooks with cross collar & sleeve grips so it mixes really well with Knee Shield Half and Collar & Sleeve if you use either of those guards. Far more of an guard player in the sense that you can control people and defend the position rather than be all out attack like Marcelo plays Butterfly.

About the only thing in common is both use SLX and Full X as their answer when people defend their most common sweeps or try get up out of Butterfly. For a more athletic person happy with a steeper learning-curve Marcelo all the way but most people are likely to get more joy with Adam's approach to Butterfly.

 

[tekkenfan]

Can anyone give me a TLDR version of their approaches to Butterfly guard. Differences between, similarities?

I'm just asking because that bjj fantics is having a 30% off deal and I might purchase those Adam Wardzinski videos if they're different from Marcelo's approach.

i prefer adams style more since 200 i started doing garcias way till around 2014 garcia likes to club the head with collar tie and elbow post as his basic sweep hes got such strong legs that he can get away with it u dont see his other top bb students hitting sweeps like that reminds me of eddie bravo in how he can do things that his students cant do as successful cause its made for his bodytype/game

adam sweeps from over hooks under hooks ect i love sweeping butterfly from over hooks cause you also have tonsss of follow up armlock triangle guillotine follow ups if you cant get the guy over

 

[nefti]

I honesty dont think i can implement marcelos stuff.

Saoulos stuff is much better for me.

 

[KenkaBancho]

Can anyone give me a TLDR version of their approaches to Butterfly guard. Differences between, similarities?

I'm just asking because that bjj fantics is having a 30% off deal and I might purchase those Adam Wardzinski videos if they're different from Marcelo's approach.

Have tried both. Adam’s style stuck more, and so i feel it’s the better intro to butterfly. Marcelo’s is more advanced and I’ve been dabbling, but Adam’s the gateway to the game.

I know you didn’t mention them but consider Danaher’s and Gordon Ryan’s. IMO they are superior to both in some regards (esp the open guard preceding the butterfly). Also if you’re into leg lock entries.

 

[KenkaBancho]

I honesty dont think i can implement marcelos stuff.

Saoulos stuff is much better for me.

Saulo’s the best teacher in BJJ imo. IIRC Adam had no answer for Xande when they grappled. Good study in how to kill the butterfly.

 

[DatCutman]

One is really long, and one is really short.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

I honesty dont think i can implement marcelos stuff.

Saoulos stuff is much better for me.

I have had some success with that Kick out Sweep that Marcelo does where you sweep then kick out their leg.

I like Marcelo's whole approach because it is very attack orientated. Although I'll never be able to hit subs in scrambles like he does - age and just the fact that i'm not on that level (never will be and Im okay with that).

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Have tried both. Adam’s style stuck more, and so i feel it’s the better intro to butterfly. Marcelo’s is more advanced and I’ve been dabbling, but Adam’s the gateway to the game.

I know you didn’t mention them but consider Danaher’s and Gordon Ryan’s. IMO they are superior to both in some regards (esp the open guard preceding the butterfly). Also if you’re into leg lock entries.

Thanks - years ago I bought those Marcelo books and started trying to use his BF game - then I ended up losing the books in a flood and kinda lost focus on that part (would play it here and there) but since mostly everyone is a guard puller nowadays I've pretty much worked on my passing more than anything and have kinda of come up with a mishmash of slower pressure passing, a few speed passes, and that floating style (using your hands, head, and legs to post and avoid the sweep).

But have recently wanted to start working on my guard more as it sucks.

I'm no a leg locker - outside of opportunistic kneebars or straight ankle locks here and there. Not sure I can handle trying to sit through a Danaher instructional.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Saulo’s the best teacher in BJJ imo. IIRC Adam had no answer for Xande when they grappled. Good study in how to kill the butterfly.

Just watched this one - Xande is so underrated (as is Saulo that Jiu Jitsu University book is gold).

 

[NSchoke]

Lachlan Giles has an open guard series on Grapplers Guide that's fantastic. He has many shades of Marcelo but is a much better teacher IMO. He goes over far, mid and close. Goes into Xguard and all.
His arm drag and hook sweep instruction are great. His Xguard stuff too.

Grapplers Guide was on sale for like $89 recently and there's a lot of good stuff on there. Lachlan 2 series alone are worth that alone.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Huge fan of Wardzinski, is butterfly guard DVD is very good but I learned more about his style with the 4 BJJ scout videos on youtube. The best part of the DVD is the alternatives and follow ups he gets from his lazy butterfly. He has some very good stuff on SLX for gi and the john wayne sweep. For the butterfly guard the DVD is good but it's really basic, as it should, you don't learn butterfly guard, you live it.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I just can't seem to play bfly the way Marcelo does. Maybe I lack aggressivity or something I don't know.

 

[thugpoet]

Thanks - years ago I bought those Marcelo books and started trying to use his BF game - then I ended up losing the books in a flood and kinda lost focus on that part (would play it here and there) but since mostly everyone is a guard puller nowadays I've pretty much worked on my passing more than anything and have kinda of come up with a mishmash of slower pressure passing, a few speed passes, and that floating style (using your hands, head, and legs to post and avoid the sweep).

But have recently wanted to start working on my guard more as it sucks.

I'm no a leg locker - outside of opportunistic kneebars or straight ankle locks here and there. Not sure I can handle trying to sit through a Danaher instructional.

Get the Giles one. Easier to shift through and he covers just as much as Danaher

 

[Zankou]

I just can't seem to play bfly the way Marcelo does. Maybe I lack aggressivity or something I don't know.

I’n not sure that most bjj schools are run in a way that really lets you learn Marcelo’s style. The constant attacking and never giving anything up approach, even in the initial grip fighting. It is hard to run a school where people roll that way. I’m curious how Marcelo learned it, because most schools would get pissy over that style of rolling.

 

[yetanother]

I’n not sure that most bjj schools are run in a way that really lets you learn Marcelo’s style. The constant attacking and never giving anything up approach, even in the initial grip fighting. It is hard to run a school where people roll that way. I’m curious how Marcelo learned it, because most schools would get pissy over that style of rolling.

How would they get pissy? You mean that there isn't enough mat space?

 

[Daz2300]

One is really long, and one is really short.

The dvd sets or Marcelo & Wardzinski?