Brock Lesnar was a truly exceptional talent.

Obviously he was very physically gifted but there is a tendency for people to be overly generous when estimating his potential because of that imo.
 
PaulieVegas27 said:
Oh look, it's an internet troll with an interim gold belt.
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What trolling did I do? I gave Brock credit for doing incredibly well in the UFC with literally only 1 fight experience, at 30 years old....and yeah he has the amateur wrestling background, but I'm sure he hadn't done any of that in his spare time since graduating 7 years prior to his first fight.

I never said he was invincible, and even noted that Cain and Carwin would always been a tough challenge for him.

But I think it's hard to argue that he would've been a better fighter had he started many years prior. Exactly how much better he could've been is all speculation.

As an added bonus I emasculated and intellectually beta cucked the forum SJW woke Karen rumbird or whatever.
 
JustforBROCK said:
No, he wasn't. He did not respond well to being hit. No amount of training fixes that imo.
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Sparring and fight experience can fix that. If Brock was some chicken who wanted out of there as soon as adversity hits he would have tapped out to Carwin or quit on the stool in between rounds. Obviously there are no guarantees but Brock at pretty much 30 had a crash course in MMA and stepped right in fighting the best in the world.. Nobody does that.. And if they do you will have some obvious gaps that need to be filled..
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
Sparring and fight experience can fix that. If Brock was some chicken who wanted out of there as soon as adversity hits he would have tapped out to Carwin or quit on the stool in between rounds. Obviously there are no guarantees but Brock at pretty much 30 had a crash course in MMA and stepped right in fighting the best in the world.. Nobody does that.. And if they do you will have some obvious gaps that need to be filled..
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Wasn't an issue also that Brock never joined an actual MMA team/gym and just hired his own guys to train in private?

I do think if Brock had gone into MMA after college instead of the WWE he'd have been very impressive.
 
Söze Aldo said:
Wasn't an issue also that Brock never joined an actual MMA team/gym and just hired his own guys to train in private?

I do think if Brock had gone into MMA after college instead of the WWE he'd have been very impressive.
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He had good trainers and trained with some good HW's.. All way in the past now..
 
AndrewGolota48 said:
What trolling did I do? I gave Brock credit for doing incredibly well in the UFC with literally only 1 fight experience, at 30 years old....and yeah he has the amateur wrestling background, but I'm sure he hadn't done any of that in his spare time since graduating 7 years prior to his first fight.

I never said he was invincible, and even noted that Cain and Carwin would always been a tough challenge for him.

But I think it's hard to argue that he would've been a better fighter had he started many years prior. Exactly how much better he could've been is all speculation.

As an added bonus I emasculated and intellectually beta cucked the forum SJW woke Karen rumbird or whatever.
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Hang on, so he wouldn't have been better with more years of training, really?

I read his book, he actually went to an MMA gym before he signed with WWE for the first time, not sure what year exactly, I think around 2001? (Timeline may be wrong). Anyway his striking technique wasn't great, with sharper boxing he would have been a deadset problem for anyone, and yeah that includes Fedor for mine.
 
TankAbbott4Eva said:
Hang on, so he wouldn't have been better with more years of training, really?

I read his book, he actually went to an MMA gym before he signed with WWE for the first time, not sure what year exactly, I think around 2001? (Timeline may be wrong). Anyway his striking technique wasn't great, with sharper boxing he would have been a deadset problem for anyone, and yeah that includes Fedor for mine.
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I meant the opposite, autocorrect, drugs, etc have been kicking my ass lately when texting as well.
 
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Dbreiden83080 said:
Sparring and fight experience can fix that. If Brock was some chicken who wanted out of there as soon as adversity hits he would have tapped out to Carwin or quit on the stool in between rounds. Obviously there are no guarantees but Brock at pretty much 30 had a crash course in MMA and stepped right in fighting the best in the world.. Nobody does that.. And if they do you will have some obvious gaps that need to be filled..
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Many people with less experience than Brock Lesnar do not react to getting hit the way that he does. He obviously just wasn't good at taking shots like that.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Many people with less experience than Brock Lesnar do not react to getting hit the way that he does. He obviously just wasn't good at taking shots like that.
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Like who? Brock Lesnar after leaving WWE failed to make the Minnesota Vikings roster. Then he proceed to get a crash course in MMA, next thing you know he’s in the UFC fighting Frank Mir. That’s like going to a tennis Academy for six months at the end of which they tell you you have a first round matchup in the U.S. Open against Jimmy Connors.
 
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AndrewGolota48 said:
I randomly went down a Lesnar nostalgia tour, and it really is remarkable how talented he was for MMA. And yes, I specifically mean MMA as opposed to just wrestling, which clearly he was also great, but we've seen other great, even higher level wrestlers come into MMA, and the vast majority can't hold a candle to Brock.

Not only did he have the outlier size, quickness, and athleticism, he also somehow had an unlimited gas tank. He didn't react well to getting hit, but had a fantastic chin.

He was an absolute wizard in terms of picking up the ground game, with some of the best top control we've seen in MMA. It's disturbing in hindsight to think that many fans dismissed him after the Mir fight, but go back and watch that fight and you will be amazed and how dominant he is on the ground against Mir, right up until the kneebar, in his SECOND MMA fight.

Bo Nickal has far more experience and is still terrified to go to the ground with Paul Craig, for example. I think Weidman is probably the only wrestler that you can argue comparatively picked up the ground game that quickly, or is even in the same ballpark.

Long time solid veteran Herring couldn't do anything to him in Brock's third ever MMA fight.....

Randy is just a damn legend, seeing him at 45 years old tying up and holding his own against a young Brock despite a 60 lb weight advantage is the stuff of fairy tales. But he was never going to overcome that size and durability advantage.

By the time he rematched Mir, his skills had developed to the point where it may have been literally the most dominant ground performance in the history of MMA.

Carwin was a nightmare matchup for Brock: a guy close to his size that also has a high level wrestling background, but far better striking with top of the food chain power. Before they fight, I thought Brock had ZERO chance of winning. He showed in that fight that, despite his terrible instincts when it comes to getting hit, that he had heart and durability to go along with his other traits.

Then of course came Cain. Fans often fantasize about how good Brock could've been if he started MMA earlier. I think his striking certainly would've been more refined, as well as his reactions to getting hit, as he would be much more experienced and comfortable in those situations. He would truly be a force to be reckoned with.

But Cain is the one matchup where I'm still not sure if Brock would be able to beat him more times than not. Cain has the striking, the wrestling, AND the gas tank.

By the time fought Ubereem, I think he was already Diverticulitis Brock, a lesser version of his peak self.

Then guy takes 5 years off and comes back to beat Hunt in a flawless victory. Yes he was PED'd to high hell in that fight, but what really impressed me is how good and elusive he had become with his defensive striking, reminding me a lot of Khabib in that regard.
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Hard to take anything you say serious, your like Sonnen.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
Like who? Brock Lesnar after leaving WWE failed to make the Minnesota Vikings roster. Then he proceed to get a crash course in MMA, next thing you know he’s in the UFC fighting Frank Mir. That’s like going to a tennis Academy for six months at the end of which they tell you you have a first round matchup in the U.S. Open against Jimmy Connors.
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Brock Lesnar had fights after Frank Mir. He still reacted poorly to punches after 5 years of fighting.
 
HavokHarmon said:
Yeah it’s crazy to see those two sequences side by side. I think the main difference is that Carwin had such massive power he just laid his shots in expecting Brock to crumble, so Brock just kept his guard up and let Shane tire himself out. Cain on the other hand had the precision and timing to keep tagging Brock despite him trying to be defensive. I think part of what made Lesnar crumble there was that he wasn’t able to properly defend just about anything Cain was throwing and it was very clear he wasn’t going to sniff tiring him out since Cain was picking his shots and not wasting energy, plus he just had a way better gas tank anyways.
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i don't think brock folded because of the punches, he gave up the moment he couldn't hold him down, that broke him
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Many people with less experience than Brock Lesnar do not react to getting hit the way that he does. He obviously just wasn't good at taking shots like that.
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That is true, Matt Mitrione or Travis Browne for example, although Browne started a couple years younger than those guys. But what about the opposite, what's an example of a guy that started striking early on but somehow still responded to really badly to getting hit? And I'm not taking about a weak chin like Goulet, I mean the lack of composure.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Brock Lesnar had fights after Frank Mir. He still reacted poorly to punches after 5 years of fighting.
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He also had huge gaps in his training thanks to pounds of his intestine being removed. Minor detail.

The man had a staggering lack of fight experience. 8 fights. His UFC career effectively began in February 2008 at 30 years old. And it was effectively over by Dec 2011. This is in between major surgeries.
 
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Dbreiden83080 said:
Sparring and fight experience can fix that. If Brock was some chicken who wanted out of there as soon as adversity hits he would have tapped out to Carwin or quit on the stool in between rounds. Obviously there are no guarantees but Brock at pretty much 30 had a crash course in MMA and stepped right in fighting the best in the world.. Nobody does that.. And if they do you will have some obvious gaps that need to be filled..
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No amount of sparring or training can affect one's ability to take or not take a punch - some people just don't respond well to being hit. Period.
 
cmw43 said:
Herring was old and out of shape? He was younger than Brock at just 30 and coming off a win over Cheik Kongo.
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for what's worth, at the time i genuinely tought that Herring had already retired at that point and him being booked surprised me.
 
JustforBROCK said:
No amount of sparring or training can affect one's ability to take or not take a punch - some people just don't respond well to being hit. Period.
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That's like saying no amount of training or practice can help someone become a better free throw shooter.
Experience equals getting better at something. Basic concept in life..

BTW Brock got kneed by Mir hard right on the Jaw at UFC 100 and was fine. He didn't have a glass jaw which can't be fixed.. That's genetic..

Now being calmer under fire.. Experience..
 
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