Brock Lesnar was a truly exceptional talent.

[AndrewGolota48]

I randomly went down a Lesnar nostalgia tour, and it really is remarkable how talented he was for MMA. And yes, I specifically mean MMA as opposed to just wrestling, which clearly he was also great, but we've seen other great, even higher level wrestlers come into MMA, and the vast majority can't hold a candle to Brock.

Not only did he have the outlier size, quickness, and athleticism, he also somehow had an unlimited gas tank. He didn't react well to getting hit, but had a fantastic chin.

He was an absolute wizard in terms of picking up the ground game, with some of the best top control we've seen in MMA. It's disturbing in hindsight to think that many fans dismissed him after the Mir fight, but go back and watch that fight and you will be amazed and how dominant he is on the ground against Mir, right up until the kneebar, in his SECOND MMA fight.

Bo Nickal has far more experience and is still terrified to go to the ground with Paul Craig, for example. I think Weidman is probably the only wrestler that you can argue comparatively picked up the ground game that quickly, or is even in the same ballpark.

Long time solid veteran Herring couldn't do anything to him in Brock's third ever MMA fight.....

Randy is just a damn legend, seeing him at 45 years old tying up and holding his own against a young Brock despite a 60 lb weight advantage is the stuff of fairy tales. But he was never going to overcome that size and durability advantage.

By the time he rematched Mir, his skills had developed to the point where it may have been literally the most dominant ground performance in the history of MMA.

Carwin was a nightmare matchup for Brock: a guy close to his size that also has a high level wrestling background, but far better striking with top of the food chain power. Before they fight, I thought Brock had ZERO chance of winning. He showed in that fight that, despite his terrible instincts when it comes to getting hit, that he had heart and durability to go along with his other traits.

Then of course came Cain. Fans often fantasize about how good Brock could've been if he started MMA earlier. I think his striking certainly would've been more refined, as well as his reactions to getting hit, as he would be much more experienced and comfortable in those situations. He would truly be a force to be reckoned with.

But Cain is the one matchup where I'm still not sure if Brock would be able to beat him more times than not. Cain has the striking, the wrestling, AND the gas tank.

By the time fought Ubereem, I think he was already Diverticulitis Brock, a lesser version of his peak self.

Then guy takes 5 years off and comes back to beat Hunt in a flawless victory. Yes he was PED'd to high hell in that fight, but what really impressed me is how good and elusive he had become with his defensive striking, reminding me a lot of Khabib in that regard.

 

[DougieJones]

plus he beat up a shark that one time

 

[SuperNerd]

He's a white boy, and he's jacked. Deal with it.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

 

[Prex32]

But Cain is the one matchup where I'm still not sure if Brock would be able to beat him more times than not. Cain has the striking, the wrestling, AND the gas tank.

cain pulled that one crazy escape move last second and messed up his own shoulder i think
could've gone either way if brock stayed on top of him, imo brock smashes him then
but he folded quickly after that, opposite to the carwin fight

 

[volodya]

People always bring of Brock vs Fedor but i think another fight we really missed out on is Brock vs Werdum

 

[Kwic]

Brock was a great entertainment. Ah, and he could whoop some ass, sometimes even with a horse shoe.
Must see TV.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Brock ducked no one that's for sure, just have a look at who he fought, killers row. Plus he had a fight booked with a prime JDS of course, beast.

 

[MMAProfessional]

I randomly went down a Lesnar nostalgia tour, and it really is remarkable how talented he was for MMA. And yes, I specifically mean MMA as opposed to just wrestling, which clearly he was also great, but we've seen other great, even higher level wrestlers come into MMA, and the vast majority can't hold a candle to Brock.

Not only did he have the outlier size, quickness, and athleticism, he also somehow had an unlimited gas tank. He didn't react well to getting hit, but had a fantastic chin.

He was an absolute wizard in terms of picking up the ground game, with some of the best top control we've seen in MMA. It's disturbing in hindsight to think that many fans dismissed him after the Mir fight, but go back and watch that fight and you will be amazed and how dominant he is on the ground against Mir, right up until the kneebar, in his SECOND MMA fight.

Bo Nickal has far more experience and is still terrified to go to the ground with Paul Craig, for example. I think Weidman is probably the only wrestler that you can argue comparatively picked up the ground game that quickly, or is even in the same ballpark.

Long time solid veteran Herring couldn't do anything to him in Brock's third ever MMA fight.....

Randy is just a damn legend, seeing him at 45 years old tying up and holding his own against a young Brock despite a 60 lb weight advantage is the stuff of fairy tales. But he was never going to overcome that size and durability advantage.

By the time he rematched Mir, his skills had developed to the point where it may have been literally the most dominant ground performance in the history of MMA.

Carwin was a nightmare matchup for Brock: a guy close to his size that also has a high level wrestling background, but far better striking with top of the food chain power. Before they fight, I thought Brock had ZERO chance of winning. He showed in that fight that, despite his terrible instincts when it comes to getting hit, that he had heart and durability to go along with his other traits.

Then of course came Cain. Fans often fantasize about how good Brock could've been if he started MMA earlier. I think his striking certainly would've been more refined, as well as his reactions to getting hit, as he would be much more experienced and comfortable in those situations. He would truly be a force to be reckoned with.

But Cain is the one matchup where I'm still not sure if Brock would be able to beat him more times than not. Cain has the striking, the wrestling, AND the gas tan

By the time fought Ubereem, I think he was already Diverticulitis Brock, a lesser version of his peak self.

Then guy takes 5 years off and comes back to beat Hunt in a flawless victory. Yes he was PED'd to high hell in that fight, but what really impressed me is how good and elusive he had become with his defensive striking, reminding me a lot of Khabib in that regard.

I get the roid stuff but aside from the Hunt fight everyone he fought was roided. What amazes me is how bad ass and resilient he was in that Carwin fight then the exact opposite in the Cain fight. Either was he was for sure a must watch fighter. I think a clean Brock beats Hunt anyway. If I recall the fight was made fairly quickly so probably couldn't cycle off in time (or he was just roided out of his mind I don't remember the details of his test results.)

 

[gosuasus]

Brock era was buzzing. The last of the golden age. Sadly Brocktobers are gone.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

And there's a lot of talk about how Karelin would've done in MMA, but people forget he was a Greco guy, which doesn't translate nearly as well (and before anyone brings up Randy, he was an high level folkstyle wrestler wrestler as well, D1 all American). Karelin likely gets double legged by Brock, and yeah he could bitch toss him here and there but not control him once he's down.

 

[joy2day]

Then of course came Cain. Fans often fantasize about how good Brock could've been if he started MMA earlier. I think his striking certainly would've been more refined, as well as his reactions to getting hit, as he would be much more experienced and comfortable in those situations. He would truly be a force to be reckoned with.

But Cain is the one matchup where I'm still not sure if Brock would be able to beat him more times than not. Cain has the striking, the wrestling, AND the gas tank.

This is where logic and reason go off the rails.

Firstly, Brock was a roider, he's been caught.

The Cain fight was not close, it was clearly a far better fighter beating a lesser fighter into a break dance. The idea he would beat Cain more often than not is a pipedream. That fight kind of ruins the thesis of this thread- they had about the same amount of experience and fights at the time they fought, and Cain was vastly superior. Therefore, it would be Cain that is the truly exceptional talent.

Brock also lost the battle of the roid heads against Overeem. Overeem's roids > Brock's roids.

 

[VinceArch]

The allure of watching a girl pissing was what kept him going to professional wrestling lol.

Look it up.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

I get the roid stuff but aside from the Hunt fight everyone he fought was roided. What amazes me is how bad ass and resilient he was in that Carwin fight then the exact opposite in the Cain fight. Either was he was for sure a must watch fighter. I think a clean Brock beats Hunt anyway. If I recall the fight was made fairly quickly so probably couldn't cycle off in time (or he was just roided out of his mind I don't remember the details of his test results.)

Shockingly the Cain fight was only 3 months later, maybe it was just too soon after the damage Carwin put on him. To fight Carwin and Cain back to back in 3 months is psychotic.

He also had diverticulitis and mononucleosis the year before that.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

This is where logic and reason go off the rails.

Firstly, Brock was a roider, he's been caught.

The Cain fight was not close, it was clearly a far better fighter beating a lesser fighter into a break dance. The idea he would beat Cain more often than not is a pipedream. That fight kind of ruins the thesis of this thread- they had about the same amount of experience and fights at the time they fought, and Cain was vastly superior. Therefore, it would be Cain that is the truly exceptional talent.

Brock also lost the battle of the roid heads against Overeem. Overeem's roids > Brock's roids.

You just invented two fake arguments and then made your counterpoints .

1) I never said the Cain fight was close.

2) My point was yes that even if Brock started early, I'm not sure that he could've beaten Cain more times than not. My whole point was that Cain is the nightmare matchup for him. You pretty much agreed with everything I said except you think Cain would win 10/10 times.

Cain is an exceptional talent as well, no doubt, but not as much of a phenom from top position, and much smaller (though it didn't matter). He also made his debut at 24 vs Brock at 30. Cain also had 8 months to heal and train for the Brock fight whereas Brock had an insanely short 3 months between Carwin pounding him down and the Cain fight.

I think it Brock started younger he could take wins off Cain, but probably less than half the time.

 

[ricc505]

Brock was part of the exciting times when heavy weights were good. He provided great entertainment and made himself and UFC money. Best ever? No. Air of excitement? Yes

 

[joy2day]

You just invented two fake arguments and then made your counterpoints .

1) I never said the Cain fight was close.

2) My point was yes that even if Brock started early, I'm not sure that he could've beaten Cain more times than not. My whole point was that Cain is the nightmare matchup for him. You pretty much agreed with everything I said except you think Cain would win 10/10 times.

Cain is an exceptional talent as well, no doubt, but not as much of a phenom from top position, and much smaller (though it didn't matter). He also made his debut at 24 vs Brock at 30. Cain also had 8 months to heal and train for the Brock fight whereas Brock had an insanely short 3 months between Carwin pounding him down and the Cain fight.

I think it Brock started younger he could take wins off Cain, but probably less than half the time.

I never said you said the Cain fight was close- I was making a point about the serious difference between the two as evidenced by the way Cain destroyed him.

In fact, you said what I DIDN'T say- I never said he would beat him 10/10. More like 85 out of 100.

In looking back at your text, I partially read what you said wrongly in regard to Brock beating him more often than not, so I will admit that much- but I still think you were understating the difference between the two- it was Cain that was the far more dynamic talent. I think Werdum would have been a bad matchup for him also.

 

[Tweak896]

People forget how good Brock was in his prime. Also before the Cain fight is when he had divirculitis, which is where he was never the same. The guy was a monster at HW, one of the best wrestlers with size, and could hang on the ground with someone like Frank Mir. Not to mention his striking was kind of powerful enough to knock down Herring. Would have loved to see him go directly in mma early and he could've been one of the GOATs even. I always though WWE was silly and him joining UFC was a joke, but we've never seen anyone like him since.

 

[Fedorgasm]

I just rewatched his flight with Randy and it was surprising.

All I remembered from that fight was Brock smashing Randy's head at the end, but when I rewatched it, I saw a very entertaining and competitive fight. It's really amazing that Randy was able to do as well as he did considering his age and size disadvantages.

 

[bigfootsbreath]

Why so many shit on Jon for his roid use but for some reason these same folks don't care about Brock's massive roid usage? I'm sure there is a reason but I just can't think of it right now.