Brock if he had trained MMA in Russia after college and stayed healthy, GOAT?

I think brock just never has had to face adversity where he had to dig deep. He can obviously train hard, but he's been juicing since his teens and that helps him there mentally too. Before he got to the UFC, he was the bully everywhere he went and didn't need that kind of mental toughness. Besides he does everything for money and had avenues to get more of it easier than getting his brains clocked.
 
All the size, skill and he couldn't take a punch.
If you're 30 the first time you get punched in the face, it's hard to adjust I imagine.

Yeah all the training in the world wasn't going to keep him from leaving a trail of piss from the locker room to the cage.
That might be overexaggerating a little bit.

I hated Brock as much as anyone here when he was signed to the UFC.

"Freakshow," I called him.

"Big dumb vanilla gorilla wrestler shithead," was another improper sentence I might have used.

"We're going to be flooded with retarded WWE fans, eventually the companies will merge!"

I may have been a little on the nose with that one and apologize for any voodoo curses I placed on our sport with that.

But...

Coming into the sport, at his age, and doing what he did, was impressive. If he wasn't Brock and he was any other NCAA wrestler who decided to go to MMA, we would have all been massively impressed with him. For the limited amount of training he had with a gym full of yesmen, beating two legitimate HW champions, three if you count Carwin's interim belt, while holding the gold is impressive.

Freak physical specimen that, had he been taking punches to the face since he was 20 in an MMA gym, had never gone to football/wrestling and had been an MMA fighter his entire life, he undoubtedly would have been one of the greats at HW due to sheer physicality and athleticism alone.

Imagine a Lesnar that could take a punch because he was used to it. We saw he has a block head and a pretty solid chin, he was never spark KO'd. Overeem got him out of there with body work. Carwin couldn't KO him. The punch that Cain dropped him with was a perfect massive overhand right that hit Lesnar behind the ear as he was turning, there isn't a human alive that wouldn't go down from that shot and still took like 30 significant strikes to Brock's big dome to TKO him.



Imagine him as a competent kickboxer with that freak strength. Not a K1 champ, just competent. He sent Heath Herring flying across the octagon with the one "good" punch he threw in his career and he didn't even turn his hips all the way into it. Before Herring can even look up at Brock again, he's already charged across the octagon on top of him. Scary fast for a HW.



Now with all of that, imagine with the top tier wrestling he already had for the division, that he also worked his way up to a black belt in BJJ under the Noguieras or Jean Jacque Machado.

Maybe I'm just jaded with the current generation of mostly fat slobs at HW with a handful of good fighters, but I've always given the thought of a Lesnar who trained MMA from college onwards as one of the scariest HW fighters that could have been. He didn't need to go to Russia in this scenario, he already had top tier American wrestling in his game. Had he after college gone to Holland for a few years and Brazil for a few years, that would have been a terrifying fighter.
 
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I suppose you could say that. It wasn't a championship that was sustainable though; I was talking about the reason he couldn't parlay his athleticism into being this dominant champ. As I had mentioned, Cain was at about the same experience level when he wrecked Brock.
UFC hasn't had too many "dominant" hw champs.
 
Brock took Cain down in this fight pretty easily. He just couldn't hold him there. If he started earlier and had some real Caucasus training with his already amazing grappling he would have murdered everyone.
 
What if Mark Hunt trained at Jackson Wink?

What if Fedor trained at AKA when he went to Strikeforce?

What if Brock trained at Blackzilians?

What if Werdum trained at Black House?

Lots of cool fantasy “what if”s.
 
What if Mark Hunt trained at Jackson Wink?

What if Fedor trained at AKA when he went to Strikeforce?

What if Brock trained at Blackzilians?

What if Werdum trained at Black House?

Lots of cool fantasy “what if”s.
But the what if is more interesting with Brock because of his brute strength and athletisim.

If he applied more modern grappling techniques with his brute strength and top control, he would have Khabib'd the HW division. Maybe his technique would never be as good but his off the charts power made up for it.
 
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I don't think so, Brock is a specimen physically. But he's not as mentally tough as you think he is.

Plus he's not even close to be remotely in the top 30 of all-time now. To even consider him a GOAT if (whatever scenario) is ridiculous.
 
But the what if is more interesting with Brock because of his brute strength and athletisim.

If he applied more modern grappling techniques with his brute strength and top control, he would have Khabib'd the HW division. Maybe his technique would never be as good but his off the charts power made up for it.
The guy would have torn Jailton Almeida's arms off and look at what Jailton did to the best wrestler in the division up until he suicidally held the takedown while getting elbowed 900 times.
 
UFC hasn't had too many "dominant" hw champs.
Exactly, and Brock's A-level athleticism still allowed him to be just another HW taking a run at the title; nothing stood out about him as a champ. Brock went down when he hit A-level MMA competition.

Plus, he got annihilated in the Battle of the Roidsters (the Reem fight).
 
Exactly, and Brock's A-level athleticism still allowed him to be just another HW taking a run at the title; nothing stood out about him as a champ. Brock went down when he hit A-level MMA competition.

Plus, he got annihilated in the Battle of the Roidsters (the Reem fight).
Brock should not only have started MMA far younger but he should have quit MMA after his diverticulitis. Reem actually knee targeted it. Brutal ending to his career besides the win over Hunt years later.

You can't really discredit his career because he had zero background in fighting other than a strong NCAA showing many years earlier. He won a UFC title and defended it all on athleticisn and college wrestling alone, with very little MMA training. That's actually an amazing achievement.
 
If you're 30 the first time you get punched in the face, it's hard to adjust I imagine.


That might be overexaggerating a little bit.

I hated Brock as much as anyone here when he was signed to the UFC.

"Freakshow," I called him.

"Big dumb vanilla gorilla wrestler shithead," was another improper sentence I might have used.

"We're going to be flooded with retarded WWE fans, eventually the companies will merge!"

I may have been a little on the nose with that one and apologize for any voodoo curses I placed on our sport with that.

But...

Coming into the sport, at his age, and doing what he did, was impressive. If he wasn't Brock and he was any other NCAA wrestler who decided to go to MMA, we would have all been massively impressed with him. For the limited amount of training he had with a gym full of yesmen, beating two legitimate HW champions, three if you count Carwin's interim belt, while holding the gold is impressive.

Freak physical specimen that, had he been taking punches to the face since he was 20 in an MMA gym, had never gone to football/wrestling and had been an MMA fighter his entire life, he undoubtedly would have been one of the greats at HW due to sheer physicality and athleticism alone.

Imagine a Lesnar that could take a punch because he was used to it. We saw he has a block head and a pretty solid chin, he was never spark KO'd. Overeem got him out of there with body work. Carwin couldn't KO him. The punch that Cain dropped him with was a perfect massive overhand right that hit Lesnar behind the ear as he was turning, there isn't a human alive that wouldn't go down from that shot and still took like 30 significant strikes to Brock's big dome to TKO him.



Imagine him as a competent kickboxer with that freak strength. Not a K1 champ, just competent. He sent Heath Herring flying across the octagon with the one "good" punch he threw in his career and he didn't even turn his hips all the way into it. Before Herring can even look up at Brock again, he's already charged across the octagon on top of him. Scary fast for a HW.



Now with all of that, imagine with the top tier wrestling he already had for the division, that he also worked his way up to a black belt in BJJ under the Noguieras or Jean Jacque Machado.

Maybe I'm just jaded with the current generation of mostly fat slobs at HW with a handful of good fighters, but I've always given the thought of a Lesnar who trained MMA from college onwards as one of the scariest HW fighters that could have been. He didn't need to go to Russia in this scenario, he already had top tier American wrestling in his game. Had he after college gone to Holland for a few years and Brazil for a few years, that would have been a terrifying fighter.

Well said and Holy shit! You really can put out large parts of text making sense quickly!
Are you my twin brother? The one without brain damage.
 
Brock should not only have started MMA far younger but he should have quit MMA after his diverticulitis. Reem actually knee targeted it. Brutal ending to his career besides the win over Hunt years later.

You can't really discredit his career because he had zero background in fighting other than a strong NCAA showing many years earlier. He won a UFC title and defended it all on athleticisn and college wrestling alone, with very little MMA training. That's actually an amazing achievement.
I wasn't discrediting his career, I was saying he wasn't outstanding in terms of HW champs; others were better. Cain had a similar time fighting MMA when they fought. Who knows what would happen if any of these guys started training sooner.
 
brock haters refuse to accept that his downfall can be pinpointed right when he got diverticulitis. He also tanked shots from carwin that wudda KTFOed a woolly mammoth so i dunno where this "he cant take a punch/weak chin'' narrative came from. On the topic of theoretical, everybody wudda been extra screwed had he went to an actual camp instead of setting up a mcdojo in his garage.

-If brock never got sick, he wudda put cain in a cane for good..
-pico vs pico or clean vs clean so its an even playing field... we all saw how utter garbage overclean's Take down defense is. Brock Woulda suplex citied into a GNP KTFO within a minute or 2 just like mediocre wrestlers like blades was able to do in his fuckin sleep. Overclean cant even defend a takedown from shinny ass shogun

 
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He got lucky Mirgliotta poked Herrings eye

I'm pretty sure he wouldve landed some punches on Brock ala Cain
 
brock haters refuse to accept that his downfall can be pinpointed right when he got diverticulitis. He also tanked shots from carwin that wudda KTFOed a woolly mammoth so i dunno where this "he cant take a punch/weak chin'' narrative came from.

-If brock never got sick, he wudda put cain in a cane for good..
-pico vs pico or clean vs clean so its an even playing field... we all saw how utter garbage overclean's Take down defense is. Brock Woulda suplex citied into a GNP KTFO within a minute or 2 just like mediocre wrestlers like blades was able to do in his fuckin sleep. Overclean cant even defend a takedown from shinny ass shogun

Your great white ape got worked bro
 
I wasn't discrediting his career, I was saying he wasn't outstanding in terms of HW champs; others were better. Cain had a similar time fighting MMA when they fought. Who knows what would happen if any of these guys started training sooner.
Cain trained with DC and Javier Mendez at AKA to take him to the next level.

It's too bad Brock never really had iron to sharpen his iron.
 
Hate all you want, but dude had potential. He could’ve been a monster. Things are just too well rounded now for the experience he had, I think.
 
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