Bring back the nuances of MMA

TheGOD said:
I agree. It's not really what I was addressing in this thread, but I've felt for a while now that top control (especially if you're in your opponents guard) should be considered a neutral position. Only damage, and secondarily, attempts at damage, should be scored. Pitter patter strikes from the bottom should outscored competely neutralized offense from top control.
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Scoring top control as a neutral position would be awesome. It'd make jiu jitsu sexy again.
 
I like it in theory, kind of like grass court tennis vs clay court, etc ... different grades of cars in motorsport, etc... mix things up. Aside from the Ring, the octagon and cage are 100% here to say. Its trademark of the UFC

But in reality, just do the things in my sig and 99% of people will be happy - and its actually somewhat practical in consideration of the 'business/pander to the mainstream' side of the argument
 
Nope, I like the UFC the way it is. If anything they need to tighten the rules reguarding short and fence grabbing and eye pokes.
 
tenniswhiz said:
I'd wish for something to encourage fighters to do their thing.

For example if a great kickboxer is amazing at getting back up after a TD, then they should be allowed to utilize their kickboxing, get back up after TD's, and not end up on the losing end of a 10-9 because they got taken down.

If a great guard player knows that a TD means they lose 10-9 if they can't get a submission (not easy to get, and say it happens less than half the time, so why concede a TD?), then of course they'll defend every TD and not get to fully use their skills.

I'm sure there are more examples, but the scoring makes many fighting styles suffer.
If you can't finish the fight standing (like Anderson Silva does) but you can really work your opponent, you'll lose any round that you get taken down.

If you have a great guard (Diaz bros, Miguel Torres, Maia, Nog, Werdum) and don't manage to get a finish from the bottom position, then you lose, 10-9.

I like the Abu Dhabi style rules, where there is a 5 minute period where no points are awarded and guys go for a finish. If they could do something like that in MMA, like a round of no scoring and just let guys fight, that would be amazing. It would be awesome to see great guard players actually pull guard or let the TD happen, or kickboxers open up on the feet because getting taken down won't cost them.
It'll never happen, but fans would love it.
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Yep. You and I agree on a lot of things and re-evaluating the scoring and getting rid of this notional "bias for position" is one of them. The way it is now, masters on their back/on the mat feel 'pressured' to get back to their feet purely because of the risk of losing rounds - even if they are taking no damage and not being controlled down there. Its completely ass about where conservatism is rewarded over finishing and low risk play of 'staying on top' is encouraged over actually trying to fight and damage/finish.

Fights need to be judged in terms of net result of each exchange (in terms of damage and proximity/threat of finishing) and in an OVERALL manner. Round by round scoring (however you implement it) for MMA fights with so few (mostly 3) rounds is ridiculous
 
fuck no. what a terrible thread and terrible ideas.

basically you're just sucking pride's dead and shriveled dick and claiming it's because you want to make the sport more complicated....

Wow

Well let me tell you something about basketball, football, and baseball. The highest leagues strive very hard for UNIFORMITY.

That is KEY to a sport's success. There are many ways to make a sport more "complicated" and whether or not that's remotely necessary is a completely different subject, (it's not necessary btw.. it's pretty dumb)

but no sport in the world just up and changes it's rules from time to time, and no sport in the world just up and changes the type of arena in which it is contested.

Baseball doesn't occassionally change from the baseball diamond into some strange baseball circle or baseball square just to be more interesting.

Basketball doesn't change from a wooden rectangle court to any other shape or any other non-wooden surface just to make things more interesting

and yet these people that can't get over japan mma still bring up the idea of orgs at least "occasionally doing events in the ring"

No. Fuck no. It's a terrible idea. If you change the area in which a fight takes place, whoever loses can be like "oh that wouldn't have happened in a cage, i just wasn't used to training in a ring"

that's why uniformity is so important (among other reasons)
 
btw, you forgot some other innovative ideas like

-a 10 minute 1st round

-scoring the fight as a whole and putting more emphasis on damage and finishing attempts

2nd page basically nails it, this is nothing but a "I want UFC TO BE PRIDE!!!!" thread in disguise
 
darthbotox said:
natman do you agree with bringing back yellow cards ?
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i don't think it's necessary.

fighters have enough problems without having to worry about losing a whole 20% of their purse just because the ref didn't think they were working hard enough.

I already don't like a lot of the blown stand up calls as it is.
 
In my opinion the way it is right now is preferable. The UFC has its rules and its 'nuances.' If I want to see the other 'nuances' I'll watch Japanese MMA.
 
Magnum1978 said:
Yep. You and I agree on a lot of things and re-evaluating the scoring and getting rid of this notional "bias for position" is one of them. The way it is now, masters on their back/on the mat feel 'pressured' to get back to their feet purely because of the risk of losing rounds - even if they are taking no damage and not being controlled down there. Its completely ass about where conservatism is rewarded over finishing and low risk play of 'staying on top' is encouraged over actually trying to fight and damage/finish.

Fights need to be judged in terms of net result of each exchange (in terms of damage and proximity/threat of finishing) and in an OVERALL manner. Round by round scoring (however you implement it) for MMA fights with so few (mostly 3) rounds is ridiculous
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Heard the positional bias argument many times over. The problem isn't with ground positions themselves or even how it's scored, it's with participants stalemating on the ground. The guy on top IS in the dominate spot, his strikes will always be heavier, and he likely secured a takedown or sweep or knockdown to get there. Taking those out of the scoring equation in a combat sport that is suppose to utilize the ground is just silly.

As it stands if neither fighter is attempting to advance position, or isn't executing any offense they are suppose to be stood up. That right there solves your biggest problem, but judges aren't always qualified or trained enough to know the high level set ups and baiting techniques.
 
Do people not understand how BAD soccer kicks and stomps look? It looks straight up fucking streetfight barbaric. There's nothing martial artsy about that shit at all. More importantly, think of the outrage and censure to follow. Use your fucking heads; it blows my mind every time someone wishes for those two things brought back.

I'm all for knees to the head while on the ground though.
 
Natman2939 said:
btw, you forgot some other innovative ideas like

-a 10 minute 1st round

-scoring the fight as a whole and putting more emphasis on damage and finishing attempts

2nd page basically nails it, this is nothing but a "I want UFC TO BE PRIDE!!!!" thread in disguise
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too easy

-does anybody want those boring 10 min rounds back really? Even the most delusional of Pride fans knows those caused some horrific moments. Gassing fighters out more doesn't help anything.

-Can't measure damage.....and what exactly constitutes a finishing attempt???? A guillotine can be used to sweep, stand, or finish. You think these already brain dead judges are going to know the difference? 1 minute flury doesn't > 14 minutes of work
 
Natman2939 said:
fuck no. what a terrible thread and terrible ideas.

basically you're just sucking pride's dead and shriveled dick and claiming it's because you want to make the sport more complicated....

Wow

Well let me tell you something about basketball, football, and baseball. The highest leagues strive very hard for UNIFORMITY.

That is KEY to a sport's success. There are many ways to make a sport more "complicated" and whether or not that's remotely necessary is a completely different subject, (it's not necessary btw.. it's pretty dumb)

but no sport in the world just up and changes it's rules from time to time, and no sport in the world just up and changes the type of arena in which it is contested.

Baseball doesn't occassionally change from the baseball diamond into some strange baseball circle or baseball square just to be more interesting.

Basketball doesn't change from a wooden rectangle court to any other shape or any other non-wooden surface just to make things more interesting

and yet these people that can't get over japan mma still bring up the idea of orgs at least "occasionally doing events in the ring"

No. Fuck no. It's a terrible idea. If you change the area in which a fight takes place, whoever loses can be like "oh that wouldn't have happened in a cage, i just wasn't used to training in a ring"

that's why uniformity is so important (among other reasons)
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What on God's green earth are you talking about? The NFL changes their rules EVERY YEAR! They play in various weather conditions and various turfs. They don't require their teams to all have domes to ensure the playing field is uniform. Besides, MMA shouldn't be copying other sports. It's unique and has elements that other sports don't have to navigate around.
 
spid3yo said:
too easy

-does anybody want those boring 10 min rounds back really? Even the most delusional of Pride fans knows those caused some horrific moments. Gassing fighters out more doesn't help anything.

-Can't measure damage.....and what exactly constitutes a finishing attempt???? A guillotine can be used to sweep, stand, or finish. You think these already brain dead judges are going to know the difference? 1 minute flury doesn't > 14 minutes of work
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i was being sarcastic. since it was pretty much the only pride differences the OP didn't name
 
I like the idea of bringing back the kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent, but not bringing back the ring. The cage is the thing. It's the better environment for MMA.
 
Natman2939 said:
i was being sarcastic. since it was pretty much the only pride differences the OP didn't name
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hahah well good I would have hoped you knew better :icon_chee


Still though, those examples come up every day.
 
I would greatly support letting fighters wear what they want tights, gis, singlets, whatever (within reason). I think it would bring back that air of style vs style that people find so appealing. I understand the attempt to legitimize the sport, but I feel like in the process, they're getting too far away from what mma really is; two guys in a cage beating the shit out of each other. Now everyone complains about how mma just keeps getting more boring. Some of OPs suggestions would help with that. I do think though that ring or cage needs to be consistent. They favor different styles, and it just wouldn't be fair to switch it up from event to event.
 
Natman2939 said:
i was being sarcastic. since it was pretty much the only pride differences the OP didn't name
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Did they wear long sleeve tight shirts in Pride? i know they wear them in grappling tournaments, but PRIDE? I'll repeat to you what i said to someone else. Just because Pride did some things right doesn't mean the UFC is doing everything wrong. I'm talking about bringing back elements of MMA, not just for the UFC, that could add another layer of complexity, strategy, and diversity.
 
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