BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

[The Sausage King]

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Quite the consistent moral positions you take.

is tarring and feathering violent ? I thought it was a humilating, not painful.

 

[Ruprecht]

Yeah and this thread is not turning out the way I thought it would when I entered.

The OP mentioned some points that I'd read several days ago and I thought there would be some commentary on those specific policy predictions - why they're bad/good/etc.. Instead, just wholesale denial that these things are even being discussed in the nation while anyone online can verify that they are being proposed and discussed.

But this goes back to the pre-vote situation where people didn't appear to have any idea about what a Brexit victory would look like in actuality. Still, will be interesting to watch (one of my close friends is being relocated there for work next year and this sort of thing will impact his multinational corporate employer).

The immigration part is equally intriguing since it only affects EU immigration and I have no idea how much value the UK gained/lost from this. I realize that the net immigration numbers were higher than many like.

It'd be a rare form of populism if they discussed policy specifics and practicalities, rather than emotional anecdotes and identity politics.

 

[WhitebeltXL]

Oh no, the massively overvalued pound is dropping.

EDIT: The pound dropped in January 2016 (long before BREXIT) from 1.70 to 1.40 and no one batted an eye lid. Post Brexit it drops from 1.40 to 1.20 and all of a sudden the naysayers and doom and gloomers (of which the BBC is the absolute worst) come out in their droves to denounce the decision to leave. The Pound is long overdue a big drop.

 

[Roca]

Brexit supporters seem to have as much political depth as Donald Trump supporters. Sound bytes and catch phrases and no details, no policies, and no plans.

 

[Ruprecht]

Marmite is no longer stocked at Tesco?

When did this happen?

Promite will be next...

 

[7437]

is tarring and feathering violent ? I thought it was a humilating, not painful.

......... you know liquid tar is hot right?

 

[panamaican]

It'd be a rare form of populism if they discussed policy specifics and practicalities, rather than emotional anecdotes and identity politics.

True.

 

[ehtheist]

Let's be "honest" and just call them racists, harassing and belittling them and their concerns. Make sure to ignore them as actual people with genuine, reasonable concerns and just boil them down to a few derogatory terms. That smug, non-reflective self-superiority isn't what created an environment that ended with Brexit winning after all, so let's just maintain this status quo of how we treat the pro-Brexit crowd, and their equivalent in other countries....

 

[Phlog]

DGAF, as long as we have safer streets, border control, pride in our country and independence ... I don't want anything more.

So considering border control will likely remain the same, freedom of movement is likely to be maintained what is it your happy to get?

I mean pride in your country has nothing to do with trade, policy and immigration but rather your countries conduct in all such things. How exactly is your pride changing and why?

Independence? We are signing up for less control, not more. We still have to deal with Europe but we won't have a say in policy formation. We get less independence out of Europe. Not more.

Do you even politic bro?

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

Not at all. Hitler won Time's man of year because of how much he fixed Germany. Hilter knew that socialism/communism was the brainchild of Russian Jews (Bolsheviks). He also noted the high amount of influence the Jewish Germans had in the legal and banking industries. The mistake Hitler made was lumping all Jews into one baseket and then murdering them in the Holocaust. If Hitler had, instead, simply removed those who were maniupuating Germany's media and banks and kicked them out of the country, it would have greatly benefit Germany and Europe. Violence is never the answer, but removing corrupt people from power and making them leave the country is a good tactic.

lol at believing in the holocaust go do some real research.

Hitler was just another controlled puppet of the zionists. ever wonder why he died may 1st which is the same date (mayday) osma bin ladden another puppet got "killed" go learn about the occult

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

It was fairly stupid and nearsighted to vote yes: but, even with the UK maintaining ultimate decision over immigration -- you were still going to have constant bagering in your ear about opening the boarder.

Personally, the rest of the EU should've hardlined and came down on ME and African immigration to keep the UK happy. England and their north American allies are way, way more valuable then 3rd world migrants

Yes, the EU itself isn't bad, it's their leaders with their shitty austerity, mass migration and corrupt governments like greece.
Migration might stay the same but it may also get better. With the EU it would get worse. Once conflict happens in Egypt or another bigger muslim country expect millions flooding into Europe.

 

[The Sausage King]

lol at believing in the holocaust go do some real research.

Hitler was just another controlled puppet of the zionists. ever wonder why he died may 1st which is the same date (mayday) osma bin ladden another puppet got "killed" go learn about the occult

The number of dead from the Holocaust may be off a lot, but it happened. Why do you deny it ?

 

[The Sausage King]

......... you know liquid tar is hot right?

Yeah, but in terms of how it was used in feathering, I thought otherwise. If it is painful then no, I don't want to tar and feather anyone.

 

[Ruprecht]

So... what percentage of Brexit supporters in here are actually neo-nazis?

 

[WhitebeltXL]

The left have been anti Europe from the beginning ffs.

You're thinking of old labour (the biggest left leaning party in the U.K.)

New Labour are massively supportive of the current incarnation of the EU, partly because of Tony Blair's reformation of the party. These Blairites are the same ones who have been trying to force Jeremy Corbyn (who is historically anti EU) out of the party for over a year now.

Don't forget Tony Blair under New Labour (left) tried to take the UK into the Euro currency (thank god that failed).

 

[WhitebeltXL]

Yes, the EU itself isn't bad, it's their leaders with their shitty austerity, mass migration and corrupt governments like greece.
Migration might stay the same but it may also get better. With the EU it would get worse. Once conflict happens in Egypt or another bigger muslim country expect millions flooding into Europe.

Honestly, the cavalier attitude from Merkel and Juncker towards the UK (lets not forget the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU beind Germany) is what has led to quite a large scale resentment towards the project, even within the EU, Juncker is being blamed for failure to keep the UK in.

 

[Thames]

I'll quote myself from the other Brexit thread:

What a trainwreck.
Their prime minister (who btw opposed Brexit) has just toured Europe, in order to try and make some friends before negotiations.

It's an absolute ridiculous position they're in. They're goal is to remain part of the single market, which you can't be part of without subjecting to EU regulation i.e. they will just become a downgraded EU member state with no authority in the EU (like Norway).
But then again, as I see it, the only alternative they have is leaving the single market. And if they do that, then they have to sit through thousands upon thousands of EU directives and regulations (more than 60 years worth of legal acts), and analyse, modify and vote on each and everyone in their own parliament (for more than 40 years, 80%+ of british laws have been decided through the EU, and they will all become null if they leave the EU and the single market), and they have to make their own laws for the EU acts that they don't want to keep.

I have no idea how many resources that has to go into this Brexit project for the U.K, but I doubt anyone can convince me that it will be worth it in the end.

The U.K should admit they fucked up, and roll back this nonsense. Their prime minister has to sit down for a large scale public Q&A about the EU, dismantle the fearmongering (primarily based on lies) that the Brexit campaigners used, and just forget this Brexit thing ever happened. No matter how hard I try, I do not see a prosperous ending for the U.K if they go through with this. At best they just become a EU member state with no voting rights, and at that point, they will have to feel very silly.

I don't think they did. At least not the part about adopting the EU reg's anyway or the immigration situation not changing.

The arguments I read in favor were that even if they take some financial hit, it would be worth it to get out from under the EU and slow the immigration tide. It looks like neither of those things are on the horizon but they're still getting the financial hit.

As I mention in the quote above, you can't be part of the single market if you don't adopt EU regulation, that wouldn't even make sense, because the EU regulation is what makes the single market.

The U.K had a lot of opt outs already in the EU, and they were not even part of the Schengen i.e. they had their own border control. The immigration argument was based on nothing, the U.K has taken in around 20k middle eastern refugees, and that decision was made independently from the EU. The EU did not force any immigrants into the U.K, and the amount that the proposed quotas had were minimal (and not part of EU policy, but was a decision made in the EU council i.e. the head of state from each member state uses the EU platform to make an agreement on a pressing issue).

I have no idea how the Brexit side won, it was so easy to see through their bullshit, and as evidenced by the aftermath they didn't even believe it themselves. Even if you were some kind of white nationalist, this Brexit vote does nothing for you in that regard either.. It's just... I dunno...

Trump and Brexit, two political realities I still have a hard time wrapping my head around is actually happening.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Yes, the EU itself isn't bad, it's their leaders with their shitty austerity, mass migration and corrupt governments like greece.
Migration might stay the same but it may also get better. With the EU it would get worse. Once conflict happens in Egypt or another bigger muslim country expect millions flooding into Europe.

Economically, the UK had a sweet deal with the EU. They got to be the bank and the bridge the US used into the European market -- from that standpoint, leaving was nearsighted. Also, they did have (at least on paper) autonomy in their immigration practices (not sure if this was just for refugee intake or all migrants with EU citizenship) However, the UK (england and wales) are not like Germany with their weird need to be altruistic and the even weirder Sweden with the asinine quest for forced multiculturalism, they are already multicultural and already have issues with it; just look at their prison population.

So, while England had its own ability to regulate immigration -- they were definelty going to have the rest of the real players of the EU nagging, whining and blabbering in their ear to do more.

The real issue, to me, was the EU should of been more acquiescent to the UK and shown that they werent going to push any migration on them as well as concede that taking in african and middle eastern refugees is a horrible policy and crack down on it. Again, the UK is more valuable to the EU than any refugee policy.

The fact that the EU is going to come down hard on the UK is evidence that they realize the failed policy of arms-wide-open and are noticing a rise of nationalism -- so they want to deter other countries from following suit. Any union agreement should have a hassle free opt out policy -- keep the trade going, and move on. It works for NAFTA it should work for the EU.

 

[Thames]

Honestly, the cavalier attitude from Merkel and Juncker towards the UK (lets not forget the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU beind Germany) is what has led to quite a large scale resentment towards the project, even within the EU, Juncker is being blamed for failure to keep the UK in.

Okay.
But let's not take away the blame from your national politicians in government, who uses every chance they have to blame the EU, and make it seem like it's some omnipotent outside entity in which they have no say in. Each time something is going poorly, the government politicians are mighty quick to point their fingers at the EU, and say "oh well, what could we do, the EU did it!".

This has created an image that the EU operates outside the national governments, and that there is no democracy involved. When in fact the EU is just a platform where all member states meet, and make agreements.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Judo hit it on the head, the UK is by far the most diverse country in Europe pre refugee crises (obviously due to their colonial history). Until recently, no country in Europe other than the UK had LESS than 90% of a dominant ethnic majority.

It's mad easy to call out 'multiculturalism' or immigration haters when they are in the equivalent of SoCal and you're in New Hampshire.....